Interesting List

nsacpi said:
I'm not sure I understand. My point is that the rebuild "inherited" a couple very valuable guys. Actually our top 2 prospects. And that it would be clearly a failure without those two guys and the gift trade with Dave Stewart.

We've added a lot of good pitching prospects since the rebuild got started. I like some of them quite a bit. But absent Acuna, Albies and the guys from the Dave Stewart trade, the outlook would be for a very long process before the team would be ready to enter a competitive window.
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If they didn't have those two guys they'd still have a top 5 farm system.

Calling the front office's signing two international players a gift is pretty funny when they left about five prospects total of whom Hurst, sims are two.

you don't have to hate everything.

No one thinks the rebuild is going poorly outside the org.
 
Southcack77 said:
If they didn't have those two guys they'd still have a top 5 farm system.

Calling the front office's signing two international players a gift is pretty funny when they left about five prospects total of whom Hurst, sims are two.

you don't have to hate everything.

No one thinks the rebuild is going poorly outside the org.
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the rebuild would be dead in the water without Acuna, Albies and Dave Stewart
 
steveAKAslick said:
Rolando Petit, has scouted Latin America for the Braves for 26 years

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-ronald-acuna-improves-every-level/633376001/
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Thats the point. The implication made around here is that hte Braves should be thanking their lucky stars that we were fortunate enough to have Frank Wren as part of this organization. If not, well then we would not have had Acuna or Albies. For starters, this demonstrates a complete lack of understanding in regards to how a professional baseball organization is run. Frank Wren probably had as much to do with signing Acuna/Albies as Fredi Gonzalez did. Why did we fire Fredi!!!!
 
CyYoung31 said:
Yeah, but it's a dumb argument. Those things happened. Some by the moxie of our FO, others by sheer luck. You need a little of both for a successful rebuild.
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Luck is significant for any one deal. But when you look at all the deals and drafting and signings since the rebuild began, there have been enough transactions so that the luck should even out. It is what it is.
 
thethe said:
Thats the point. The implication made around here is that hte Braves should be thanking their lucky stars that we were fortunate enough to have Frank Wren as part of this organization. If not, well then we would not have had Acuna or Albies. For starters, this demonstrates a complete lack of understanding in regards to how a professional baseball organization is run. Frank Wren probably had as much to do with signing Acuna/Albies as Fredi Gonzalez did. Why did we fire Fredi!!!!
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Actually, I'm agnostic about giving anyone the credit for Acuna and Albies. But my point has to do with the rebuild and the people who have been executing it. And I'm saying Acuna and Albies were in the system before the rebuild was begun.
 
nsacpi said:
Actually, I'm agnostic about giving anyone the credit for Acuna and Albies. But my point has to do with the rebuild and the people who have been executing it. And I'm saying Acuna and Albies were in the system before the rebuild was begun.
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Don't be dishonest here. The point of mentioning Albies/Acuna is to diminish the impact of the front office. The whole reason Albies/Acuna are here though is the network that Snyder/JS/Cox created. Wren probably had 0 impact on singing Albies/Acuna. The Braves most likely targeted all this pitching because they knew just how good Albies/Acuna were so to criticize the direction of the 'rebuild' which focused on pitching completely takes away from the fact that the organization knew they had two hitting studs already.
 
thethe said:
Don't be dishonest here. The point of mentioning Albies/Acuna is to diminish the impact of the front office.
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I'm not being underhanded. I think it should be obvious that my point is that the execution of the rebuild leaves a lot to be desired.
 
nsacpi said:
I'm not being underhanded. I think it should be obvious that my point is that the execution of the rebuild leaves a lot to be desired.
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But the rebuild was executed knowing about Albies/Acuna. If they aren't in the organization a different approach is taken.
 
I don't really care that much about who gets the credit for what we have. The bottom line is that we have them all. So...be happy about it?

I get that it matters to a degree in trying to determine if the FO is doing well. But that's not a decision we're going to make ultimately anyway. I like Coppy's general strategy, which is to go young and high-upside. I liked most of the deals we made at the time they were made, with the big exceptions being the HO deal, the Kemp deal, and the Simmons deal (though I wasn't that upset about that one at the time). Several have turned out worse for us, but then you have smaller deals like Touki and Gohara that were pretty great. And our drafts look darn good so far.

Regardless, I like our strategy, and I like where we are. Determining how much where we are is due to the specific moves of the current FO isn't as important to me.
 
thethe said:
But the rebuild was executed knowing about Albies/Acuna. If they aren't in the organization a different approach is taken.
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Sure. Although I doubt anyone expected Acuna to turn into the Venezuelan Trout. My point is if you look at the accumulation of assets since the rebuild began, it is unimpressive with the exception of the returns from the Dave Stewart trade.

During the course of the rebuild, we have traded away 5 years of contractual control of Andrelton Simmons on team friendly terms, 4 years of Kimbrel on team friendly terms, 4 years of Gattis, 1 year each of Justin Upton and Heyward (and the first round picks associated with their hitting free agency). We have reallocated budget away from the major league team in a way that allowed us to spend big on the international market and acquire Touki. And we have now had 3 drafts with highly advantageous drafting positions.

Given all of the above, I think the returns are not impressive. The rebuild still has a chance of having some success. But if not for Acuna, Albies and Dave Stewart it would have virtually no chance of success without a much longer period of losing records.
 
nsacpi said:
Sure. Although I doubt anyone expected Acuna to turn into the Venezualan Trout. My point is if you look at the accumulation of assets since the rebuild began, it is unimpressive with the exception of the returns from the Dave Stewart trade.

During the course of the rebuild, we have traded away 5 years of contractual control of Andrelton Simmons on team friendly terms, 4 years of Kimbrel on team friendly terms, 4 years of Gattis, 1 year each of Justin Upton and Heyward (and the first round picks associated with their hitting free agency). We have reallocated budget away from the major league team in a way that allowed us to spend big on the international market and acquire Touki. And we have now had 3 drafts with highly advantageous drafting positions.

Given all of the above, I think the returns are not impressive. The rebuild still has a chance of having some success. But if not for Acuna, Albies and Dave Stewart it would have virtually no chance of success without a much longer period of losing records.
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I'm a believer in Fried. So therefore, you are looking at Gohara/Fried for Upton (BIG WIN).

Inciarte/Swanson for Heyward (BIG Win)

Folty/Ruiz for Gattis (Win but I'm bullish on Folty still()

Kimbrel deal was bad

I'm a fan of Newcomb so I still like the Simmons deal but I can easily see how many think it was a bad deal.

I don't see how you can say the returns have not been impressive.
 
thethe said:
I'm a believer in Fried. So therefore, you are looking at Gohara/Fried for Upton (BIG WIN).

Inciarte/Swanson for Heyward (BIG Win)

Folty/Ruiz for Gattis (Win but I'm bullish on Folty still()

Kimbrel deal was bad

I'm a fan of Newcomb so I still like the Simmons deal but I can easily see how many think it was a bad deal.

I don't see how you can say the returns have not been impressive.
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Without Acuna, Albies and Dave Stewart, we would probably be looking at another 5 years of losing before turning this thing around. If we make the playoffs in the next five years, it will be because of disproportionate contributions from Acuna, Ablies, Swanson and Inciarte.
 
But they are here. Those signings did happen. That trade did happen.

We don't know what the rebuild looks like without those guys because we don't exist in that universe. The long term plan would have been different without those guys.

Again, the whole point of this argument is to say that the current Braves FO would be awful without the benevolence of Wren which is just not true at all.
 
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