Megathread: Braves lose Maitan, Bae and 10+ plus International Sanctions.

Julio3000 said:
Speaking of Shanks, this is a bit from his column drooling on Dayton Moore.

The sad part about all of this was the turmoil was unnecessary. Coppolella created a great talent base for the future, but the methods with which he built that foundation obviously were not in the spirit of the heralded “Braves Way.”
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I hope you didn't have to pay for that fine piece of journalism.
 
JxnMissFan said:
WTF is a western crosschecker? I misread At first and thought you said cross dresser.

That twitter rant about Coppy and McDaniel being drinking buddies may have some truth and not just sour grapes
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Crosscheckers are a step above the area scouts. The area scouts do the initial work-up on prospects and then the crosscheckers come in and supply another take on the player and take the analysis a little deeper. Crosscheckers' work is usually devoted to the higher-level draft prospects.
 
I personally don't really care about the departure of Coppy as a person. I thought he came off as a smug b*astard who thought he was way smarter than he really was.

I do have concern about the potential death of a change in philosophy in effort to bring the Braves into the 21st century.

JS has always been overrated. Without Bobby Cox he wouldn't be anywhere near as revered as he has become. Cox built the early 90's team when he was GM then kept it going by creating a clubhouse environment where players wanted to play, many that signed for less dollars to play for the Braves. I think JS was always much too close to the commissioners office and probably wanted to be commissioner at one time. When other teams were pushing the envelope in the draft (over slot spending) JS and the Braves staunchly held the mark and suffered from it.

Hart also was a bit overrated but probably a better GM than JS in his day.

But, I don't think it was JS and Hart who generated the exodus of Coppy. After all, if they wanted him gone for any reason they could just fire him.

I think Coppy pissed off so many people, outside but especially inside the organization, that this whole thing likely started "whistle blower" style from some of the scouts. JS and Hart, never completely sold on Coppy with confidence fading, seized on this opportunity to go ahead and make the move.

I've been very critical of this whole rebuild/reload from the beginning. I said at the start it wouldn't work the way they were going about it, that no matter what they wanted it would still be a minimum 5 years from start to end of any rebuild and that getting good isn't the issue. It's establishing a foundation to be good for a long time.

Now, the long term foundation likely is further eroded because there will be some punishment. Add to that the expected "panic moves" of the coming offseason and we may see a very quick high water mark with a slower decline into an inevitable round two of rebuild.

If Coppy goes but is replaced with the better, nicer, wiser Coppy then it's probably a net positive in the long run.

If he is replaced by another member of the good old boy club with a room full of harrumph, harrumph, harrumph (Blazing Saddles reference) decision making then welcome to my nightmare.
 
Forever Fredi said:
Hard to speak against Glavine. He delivered our only World Series ring.

But at the same time the old guard needs to realize we are a mid market payroll team. We need to be efficient and take all routes with scouting and saber combined to have a chance.
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I'm certain that Glavine isn't qualified to be making personnel decisions.
 
CyYoung31 said:
I'm certain that Glavine isn't qualified to be making personnel decisions.
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No but he, Cox, Chipper all have Special Assistant to the GM titles.

I’m sure they put Glav in the war room because they want him At some point to be in the FO. And Glav does have experience as former Union head of the MLBPA. So he has dealt with negotiations before. That’s a lot more executive experience than most former players. What I think needs to happen is the Old Guard need to get off their Braves Way high horse. We haven’t been to a World Series in 18 years but made the playoffs 9 times since then. Haven’t been to the NLCS since 2001. We are not a top 3 payroll team like we were in 90s. We’d not be able to afford to buy someone like Maddux in today’s inflated contract market. We wouldn’t be able to offer nice extensions to key core players here after their arb years.
 
Forever Fredi said:
No but he, Cox, Chipper all have Special Assistant to the GM titles.

I’m sure they put Glav in the war room because they want him At some point to be in the FO. And Glav does have experience as former Union head of the MLBPA. So he has dealt with negotiations before. That’s a lot more executive experience than most former players. What I think needs to happen is the Old Guard need to get off their Braves Way high horse. We haven’t been to a World Series in 18 years but made the playoffs 9 times since then. Haven’t been to the NLCS since 2001. We are not a top 3 payroll team like we were in 90s. We’d not be able to afford to buy someone like Maddux in today’s inflated contract market. We wouldn’t be able to offer nice extensions to key core players here after their arb years.
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Glavine, like Chipper, I assume was originally hired to mainly assist in player development. That's where both of those guys would come in handy, and at least for now, that's where they should stay. If Glavine wants to work his way up and learn the ropes of being a FO executive, then let him do that. I'm just not sure why Glavine should have any input on what scouts should be getting hired/fired at the moment.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Glavine, like Chipper, I assume was originally hired to mainly assist in player development. That's where both of those guys would come in handy, and at least for now, that's where they should stay. If Glavine wants to work his way up and learn the ropes of being a FO executive, then let him do that. I'm just not sure why Glavine should have any input on what scouts should be getting hired/fired at the moment.
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Well I mean part of player development is scouting. I'm pretty sure Glavine gets sent to meet some scouts as a pair of extra eyes. He's basically doing what Kiley McDaniel has been reassigned to do and give a more thorough review of a player that's being scouted but probably not required to give the full report. And who wouldn't want Glavine's brain and eyes to go scout for talent? A guy that lived off of going toe to toe with hitter's strengths and egos, surely has some value. He was a pitcher not a thrower. He can probably pick apart a pitcher or hitter's tendencies mechanics as good as Maddux.

He's probably defending certain Scouts because he's probably worked with them directly. He's been retired for 8 years now and became an Assistant to GM almost immediately after he hung it up. I'm almost certain he's been sent down in the minors at points to check in on some of our own prospects as well as scout other talent.
 
Enscheff said:
ding ding ding

12:32

seth: Is the Braves fiasco a shot across the bow to all MLB teams? especially after the Red Sox ‘punishment’ didn’t seem to have any effect?

12:33

Eric A Longenhagen: No, this is less about practices in Latin America and more about the individual involved.
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I'm not sure how you're coming to the conclusion that this question and answer supports you're conspiracy theory. The "Braves fiasco" would seem to refer more than just the firing of Coppy. He is being investigated for more than just Latin America practices after all.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I personally don't really care about the departure of Coppy as a person. I thought he came off as a smug b*astard who thought he was way smarter than he really was.

I do have concern about the potential death of a change in philosophy in effort to bring the Braves into the 21st century.

JS has always been overrated. Without Bobby Cox he wouldn't be anywhere near as revered as he has become. Cox built the early 90's team when he was GM then kept it going by creating a clubhouse environment where players wanted to play, many that signed for less dollars to play for the Braves. I think JS was always much too close to the commissioners office and probably wanted to be commissioner at one time. When other teams were pushing the envelope in the draft (over slot spending) JS and the Braves staunchly held the mark and suffered from it.

Hart also was a bit overrated but probably a better GM than JS in his day.

But, I don't think it was JS and Hart who generated the exodus of Coppy. After all, if they wanted him gone for any reason they could just fire him.

I think Coppy pissed off so many people, outside but especially inside the organization, that this whole thing likely started "whistle blower" style from some of the scouts. JS and Hart, never completely sold on Coppy with confidence fading, seized on this opportunity to go ahead and make the move.

I've been very critical of this whole rebuild/reload from the beginning. I said at the start it wouldn't work the way they were going about it, that no matter what they wanted it would still be a minimum 5 years from start to end of any rebuild and that getting good isn't the issue. It's establishing a foundation to be good for a long time.

Now, the long term foundation likely is further eroded because there will be some punishment. Add to that the expected "panic moves" of the coming offseason and we may see a very quick high water mark with a slower decline into an inevitable round two of rebuild.

If Coppy goes but is replaced with the better, nicer, wiser Coppy then it's probably a net positive in the long run.

If he is replaced by another member of the good old boy club with a room full of harrumph, harrumph, harrumph (Blazing Saddles reference) decision making then welcome to my nightmare.
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For the most part I agree with this, Harry.

I'm not as worried about panic moves because I don't think anyone left has any reason to panic.

The new gm, if there is a new GM, might want to make a splash. That guy will have a long rope though, being new.

We will see what the penalty will be, if any, and go from there.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I personally don't really care about the departure of Coppy as a person. I thought he came off as a smug b*astard who thought he was way smarter than he really was.

I do have concern about the potential death of a change in philosophy in effort to bring the Braves into the 21st century.

JS has always been overrated. Without Bobby Cox he wouldn't be anywhere near as revered as he has become. Cox built the early 90's team when he was GM then kept it going by creating a clubhouse environment where players wanted to play, many that signed for less dollars to play for the Braves. I think JS was always much too close to the commissioners office and probably wanted to be commissioner at one time. When other teams were pushing the envelope in the draft (over slot spending) JS and the Braves staunchly held the mark and suffered from it.

Hart also was a bit overrated but probably a better GM than JS in his day.

But, I don't think it was JS and Hart who generated the exodus of Coppy. After all, if they wanted him gone for any reason they could just fire him.

I think Coppy pissed off so many people, outside but especially inside the organization, that this whole thing likely started "whistle blower" style from some of the scouts. JS and Hart, never completely sold on Coppy with confidence fading, seized on this opportunity to go ahead and make the move.

I've been very critical of this whole rebuild/reload from the beginning. I said at the start it wouldn't work the way they were going about it, that no matter what they wanted it would still be a minimum 5 years from start to end of any rebuild and that getting good isn't the issue. It's establishing a foundation to be good for a long time.

Now, the long term foundation likely is further eroded because there will be some punishment. Add to that the expected "panic moves" of the coming offseason and we may see a very quick high water mark with a slower decline into an inevitable round two of rebuild.

If Coppy goes but is replaced with the better, nicer, wiser Coppy then it's probably a net positive in the long run.

If he is replaced by another member of the good old boy club with a room full of harrumph, harrumph, harrumph (Blazing Saddles reference) decision making then welcome to my nightmare.
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Well said. I don't sing the same notes as you regarding the rebuild, but we've been singing the same song. There has been a very odd logic to the re-build, but it's all been seemingly built on half-measures when a more aggressive approach would have been the better way to go. As per Coppy, he always struck me as a non-baseball guy who was trying desperately to both impress and appease the baseball guys. I think he failed on both counts.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I personally don't really care about the departure of Coppy as a person. I thought he came off as a smug b*astard who thought he was way smarter than he really was.

I do have concern about the potential death of a change in philosophy in effort to bring the Braves into the 21st century.

JS has always been overrated. Without Bobby Cox he wouldn't be anywhere near as revered as he has become. Cox built the early 90's team when he was GM then kept it going by creating a clubhouse environment where players wanted to play, many that signed for less dollars to play for the Braves. I think JS was always much too close to the commissioners office and probably wanted to be commissioner at one time. When other teams were pushing the envelope in the draft (over slot spending) JS and the Braves staunchly held the mark and suffered from it.

Hart also was a bit overrated but probably a better GM than JS in his day.

But, I don't think it was JS and Hart who generated the exodus of Coppy. After all, if they wanted him gone for any reason they could just fire him.

I think Coppy pissed off so many people, outside but especially inside the organization, that this whole thing likely started "whistle blower" style from some of the scouts. JS and Hart, never completely sold on Coppy with confidence fading, seized on this opportunity to go ahead and make the move.

I've been very critical of this whole rebuild/reload from the beginning. I said at the start it wouldn't work the way they were going about it, that no matter what they wanted it would still be a minimum 5 years from start to end of any rebuild and that getting good isn't the issue. It's establishing a foundation to be good for a long time.

Now, the long term foundation likely is further eroded because there will be some punishment. Add to that the expected "panic moves" of the coming offseason and we may see a very quick high water mark with a slower decline into an inevitable round two of rebuild.

If Coppy goes but is replaced with the better, nicer, wiser Coppy then it's probably a net positive in the long run.

If he is replaced by another member of the good old boy club with a room full of harrumph, harrumph, harrumph (Blazing Saddles reference) decision making then welcome to my nightmare.
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Sounds like the new team will HAVE to overpay for Stanton now to push the stench off the front pages.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I personally don't really care about the departure of Coppy as a person. I thought he came off as a smug b*astard who thought he was way smarter than he really was.
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Personally, I had him pegged as more of a psychopath, and I'm not kidding about that.

But I'm not sure that's worse that Hart and JS, who come across as detached, tied to some mythical past that really never existed, and also guys who were NOT all that good in their primes, except as skillful small group politicians (aka backscratchers).

The combination has not been a good one. It is a small miracle that some aspects of the rebuild have gone as well as they have.
 
Probably was always part of the plan

I've been posting about it not because I necessarily like it (depends on cost) but because I think it was always coming
 
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