Trading Inciarte

E

Enscheff

Well-known member
I have seen suggestions before that the Braves should look into trading Inciarte this off season, and TalkingChop just posted another one:

https://www.talkingchop.com/2017/11/8/16623030/should-atlanta-braves-trade-ender-inciarte-rumors

I agree that this is the time to sell high on Inciarte if that's what the Braves want to do. I'm not sure I agree that Acuna is good enough in CF to play there everyday, but I will defer to prospect gurus in that regard.

The question then becomes, what would the Braves have to get back for Inciarte to warrant giving him up? Would the return have to be MLB ready, or do the Braves not care about 2018?

The most likely scenario would be to trade Inciarte for a MLB-ready corner OF or 3B. The question then becomes, who needs a CFer? Below are the teams with the worst CF production in 2017 (below 2 WAR):

Athletics -0.6
White Sox -0.3
Orioles 1.0
Reds 1.2
Giants 1.2
Tigers 1.2
Brewers 1.3
Mariners 1.4

We can eliminate the rebuilding teams (Sox, Reds, Tigers). Orioles have Adam Jones. Brewers are trying to break in Broxton and/or Brinson. That leaves the A's, Giants, and Mariners. Needless to say, the Giants and Mariners have nothing the Braves want.

So...the A's. Do the A's have anyone MLB ready who might entice the Braves to swap 2-3 WAR in CF for similar production somewhere else?

The only player I see who fits that description is Matt Chapman. He has a lot of control left, a good defender at 3B, and Steamer projects him for 2.5 WAR next year. Problem is there is 0% chance the A's trade him.

I just don't see any other scenario where another team needs an upgrade in CF and has an OF/3B with 4+ years of control remaining.

I think Inciarte stays put, and Acuna plays above average defense in RF.
 
Inciarte is my favorite Brave to watch play. However, I agree that we probably should at least consider the idea of trading Inciarte. I really don't know if his value will ever be higher and Acuna probably brings the most value as a CFer (at least early in his career).

Here's a question, would you consider trading Ender to an AL team for a lesser return if it meant getting rid of Kemp's contract?
 
striker42 said:
Inciarte is my favorite Brave to watch play. However, I agree that we probably should at least consider the idea of trading Inciarte. I really don't know if his value will ever be higher and Acuna probably brings the most value as a CFer (at least early in his career).

Here's a question, would you consider trading Ender to an AL team for a lesser return if it meant getting rid of Kemp's contract?
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And spending that money one what? JD Martinez? Moustakas?

Would I rather have an OF with Acuna and Inciarte or Acuna and an aging FA the Braves paid full market value to acquire?

I think I'd stick with Inciarte in that case too.

One other scenario that might make sense is Inciarte to the Cubs for Happ, but I'm not sure they are too interested in upgrading over Almora.
 
Inciarte for Kyle Seager might have legs. The M's would have to kick in a pretty good prospect given that Inciarte's contract is a lot more team friendly.
 
One issue with trading Inciarte is we are not deep in the outfield. We are trying to get rid of Markakis and/or Kemp and they are on 1-2 year deals. After Inciarte and Acuna we don't have anyone who projects as a starting outfielder. Pache maybe in 3 or 4 years.
 
nsacpi said:
Inciarte for Kyle Seager might have legs. The M's would have to kick in a pretty good prospect given that Inciarte's contract is a lot more team friendly.
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Then who plays 3B for the M's?

It's unlikely they swap Seager for Inciarte and then pay full retail to fill the hole at 3B they just created.
 
Enscheff said:
Then who plays 3B for the M's?
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They would have to make another move. But the salary difference between Seager and Inciarte would give them the flexibility to bring in someone.

We've been talking about guys like Solarte, Prado and Nunez for the Braves at third. The M's could easily pick up someone like that. We could also ship Ruiz or Camargo to them as part of the deal. Assuming willingness on their part to compensate with other assets.
 
nsacpi said:
One issue with trading Inciarte is we are not deep in the outfield. We are trying to get rid of Markakis and/or Kemp and they are on 1-2 year deals. After Inciarte and Acuna we don't have anyone who projects as a starting outfielder. Pache maybe in 3 or 4 years.
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Agreed. I just don't see it happening.
 
Enscheff said:
One other scenario that might make sense is Inciarte to the Cubs for Happ, but I'm not sure they are too interested in upgrading over Almora.
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Happ makes a lot of sense for us. But I would try to interest the Cubs in one of our pitchers rather than trade Inciarte for him. I wonder if they would consider say Allard plus Sims for Happ. They have two openings to fill in their rotation. It might make sense for them to go for an expensive proven guy via free agency plus a younger guy with upside. Sims for this year and then Allard coming in when he is ready.

Outfield of Happ, Inciarte and Acuna would be very productive and cheap for a while. Happ could also play some third while Kemp/Markakis hold down a spot in the outfield.
 
Happ is Maddon's Cub Zobrist. Don't think he's going anywhere.
Camargo + Inciarte for Seager+ makes a ton of sense to me. Do they have another Gohara?
 
Super said:
Happ is Maddon's Cub Zobrist. Don't think he's going anywhere.
Camargo + Inciarte for Seager+ makes a ton of sense to me. Do they have another Gohara?
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The Cubs also have Baez, who I would have some interest in. It could be that the Cubs want to keep both. But if they wanted to trade one of Baez or Happ for a young pitcher or two, I'd have a lot of interest in that.
 
nsacpi said:
The Cubs also have Baez, who I would have some interest in. It could be that the Cubs want to keep both. But if they wanted to trade one of Baez or Happ for a young pitcher or two, I'd have a lot of interest in that.
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They're not going to be able to keep both. They need pitching and don't have anyone on the horizon.

For all of the talk of their rebuild, they've had to trade a lot of it for pitching or pay retail in the case of Lester.
 
nsacpi said:
Happ makes a lot of sense for us. But I would try to interest the Cubs in one of our pitchers rather than trade Inciarte for him. I wonder if they would consider say Allard plus Sims for Happ. They have two openings to fill in their rotation. It might make sense for them to go for an expensive proven guy via free agency plus a younger guy with upside. Sims for this year and then Allard coming in when he is ready.

Outfield of Happ, Inciarte and Acuna would be very productive and cheap for a while. Happ could also play some third while Kemp/Markakis hold down a spot in the outfield.
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The Cubs will almost certainly trade from the group of Schwarber/Happ/Russell/Baez/Almora to upgrade their pitching staff (I would trade Schwarber and Baez if I were them). They will likely sign a 2nd tier guy like Lynn or Cobb, and trade for a TOR like Archer or Graveman or Fulmer when he shows he's healthy.

I don't see them being interesting in any of the Braves pitchers, but if they have to use Almora to get the TOR they covet, they may be interested in Inciarte for Happ.

A trade with the Cubs is a long shot, but it's within the realm of possibilities.
 
All right! Something that's never been discussed here before!

Just last week, there was an article in WSJ about the Astros. After they lost over 100 games, supposedly they became the most analytically-driven team. (Don't know if it's exaggerated and don't care.) Along the way, it was realized and determined that they needed team chemistry.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-astros-hit-on-a-winning-formula-1509648139

(This requires a subscription.)

If anybody else here actually saw/read the article, it's not too surprising that it didn't receive much attention here. It doesn't contribute to the prevailing groupthink. OK, that's not directly related to Inciarte, but the point is that few here realize just how good he is to this franchise. He, besides Freeman, is one of the players that you want to build a team around. Further despite message board hearsay about being close to 30, "declining," blah blah blah, he fits the profile of the team chemistry objective. He's somebody who provides leadership, professionalism, along with on-field excellence. It's an unknown factor how much better he could perform during playoff situations, making the players around him better in the process. He, alone, was worth the Miller trade. Anything that Swawson eventually accomplishes is gravy.

If you really want to pinpoint "value," forget for a moment what Talking Chop or Law say. Hypothetically, throw the name out and see what teams would be interesting. Bet that the top contending teams in baseball would line up to try and get him. In reality, it would be foolish to let him go. Not simply because of the nice contract, but because he is the exact catalyst that they will need when they finally get good.
 
Enscheff said:
The Cubs will almost certainly trade from the group of Schwarber/Happ/Russell/Baez/Almora to upgrade their pitching staff (I would trade Schwarber and Baez if I were them). They will likely sign a 2nd tier guy like Lynn or Cobb, and trade for a TOR like Archer or Graveman or Fulmer when he shows he's healthy.

I don't see them being interesting in any of the Braves pitchers, but if they have to use Almora to get the TOR they covet, they may be interested in Inciarte for Happ.

A trade with the Cubs is a long shot, but it's within the realm of possibilities.
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Detroit might be possible IF the Braves are willing to take money back. Inciarte and Teheran for Fulmer and Zimmerman might be attractive because it would move Zimmerman's contract. Of course, that would be with the Braves thinking Zimmerman is at least a useful 4, maybe 3 once back in the NL. The Braves would be taking on about $12M more in 2018.

If you think Fulmer can be your TOR guy then it might be worth it. SP - Fulmer, Gohara, Folty, Newcomb, Zimmerman while keeping the young guys looks serviceable. Losing Teheran in that situation is no loss at all. Finding the replacement for Inciarte short term is the challenge, especially if Muk and Kemp still play in right and left.
 
Knucksie said:
All right! Something that's never been discussed here before!

Just last week, there was an article in WSJ about the Astros. After they lost over 100 games, supposedly they became the most analytically-driven team. (Don't know if it's exaggerated and don't care.) Along the way, it was realized and determined that they needed team chemistry.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-astros-hit-on-a-winning-formula-1509648139

(This requires a subscription.)

If anybody else here actually saw/read the article, it's not too surprising that it didn't receive much attention here. It doesn't contribute to the prevailing groupthink. OK, that's not directly related to Inciarte, but the point is that few here realize just how good he is to this franchise. He, besides Freeman, is one of the players that you want to build a team around. Further despite message board hearsay about being close to 30, "declining," blah blah blah, he fits the profile of the team chemistry objective. He's somebody who provides leadership, professionalism, along with on-field excellence. It's an unknown factor how much better he could perform during playoff situations, making the players around him better in the process. He, alone, was worth the Miller trade. Anything that Swawson eventually accomplishes is gravy.

If you really want to pinpoint "value," forget for a moment what Talking Chop or Law say. Hypothetically, throw the name out and see what teams would be interesting. Bet that the top contending teams in baseball would line up to try and get him. In reality, it would be foolish to let him go. Not simply because of the nice contract, but because he is the exact catalyst that they will need when they finally get good.
Click to expand...

You need team chemistry with talented players. You can have the most chemistryed no talent team in the business and still not win a thing.
 
I like this quote from the WSJ article:

“The human element of baseball is always going to be important, but so is all the science and technology,” Luhnow said. “It’s the teams that are able to appropriately blend all of that together that are going to have success. We’ve done our best to try to blend it all in a way that leads to better decisions.”
 
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