Megathread: Braves lose Maitan, Bae and 10+ plus International Sanctions.

[Horsehide Harry]

They need to close the Dominican academy for a few years, put the money into the best scouts available and have them looking at 12 year olds. It's possible that when the Braves are out of jail that the rules will be different and things will be cleaned up, maybe a draft.

Then they need to take the rest of the money they have and start scouring the domestic independent leagues and looking at foreign players (and American players playing for foreign teams like Eric Thames) not subject to J2 rules.

Also, they may want to start some inner city domestic academies for the future scouting and publicity.

 

[DaneHill]

For such an historic MLB news story, the MLB.COM site sure is playing it down. Just one little article found in the middle of a bunch of others titled simply 'Braves penalized for int'l signing violations'. If this had happened to the Yankees, Red Sox or Cubs, this would have 10 articles vying for its top news story. Or maybe Manfred ordered them to downplay coverage so as not to stir up fan outrage. Whatever. **** all of them. I've got more important things to consider, like figure out what my new license plate should be.

 

[Horsehide Harry]

But that's a whole year. This was a colossal ****up. This is millions of millions of los dollars. Both in real money but even more importantly in future value. If anyone we lose becomes an All-Star or god forbid an MVP, we are talking possibly over a hundred million in lost revenue and player value. How the guys at the very top aren't held accountable is insane to me. I'm not saying outright ban them from the organization because that's tactless, but maybe they become lifetime advisors or some **** like that.

JS has the shield of the HoF. Can you imagine Pete Rose waiting to bet on baseball until after he was in the HoF?

 

[striker42]

Last I checked McGuirk and Schuerholz still have jobs.

McGurik still has a job and is probably the one that is drawing the ire of Liberty (if there really is any left). McGurik is the money man. The fact that Coppy was playing so fast and loose with so much money does not reflect well on McGurik.

Everyone keeps going on an on about JS needing to be shown the door. In reality, he's already almost all the way out the door. Has been for a while. Firing him would be like digging someone up just to hang their corpse.

 

[weso1]

For such an historic MLB news story, the MLB.COM site sure is playing it down. Just one little article found in the middle of a bunch of others titled simply 'Braves penalized for int'l signing violations'. If this had happened to the Yankees, Red Sox or Cubs, this would have 10 articles vying for its top news story. Or maybe Manfred ordered them to downplay coverage so as not to stir up fan outrage. Whatever. **** all of them. I've got more important things to consider, like figure out what my new license plate should be.

There's a reason they released the news the day everyone is travelling for Thanksgiving.

 

[cajunrevenge]

I think that punishment is a little harsh but it's fair. My problems with it is rewarding the players instead of punishing them. These deals take 2 to make. Letting them kerp the money and sign a new deal only incentivizes players to take a deal like this then rat on the team to be declared a free agent.

What I would do us take that money we can't spend on international prospects and use it to try and catch other teams doing the and thing then turn then in.

I also still want a reasonable answer as to why MLB gave the Nationals 25 million last year without making it public knowledge. It's since come out but not thanks to MLB. Why keep it a secret if it was not doing anything wrong? Why does a team with 169 million payroll need 25 million. If we need 25 million we have to make cuts.

 

[striker42]

For such an historic MLB news story, the MLB.COM site sure is playing it down. Just one little article found in the middle of a bunch of others titled simply 'Braves penalized for int'l signing violations'. If this had happened to the Yankees, Red Sox or Cubs, this would have 10 articles vying for its top news story. Or maybe Manfred ordered them to downplay coverage so as not to stir up fan outrage. Whatever. **** all of them. I've got more important things to consider, like figure out what my new license plate should be.

MLB's PR handling of this has been masterful. Manfred went way overboard. I be even he knows it. However, MLB knows if it was headline news that the end conclusion would be that the punishment was ridiculous and Manfred and MLB would lose a lot of credibility. The rest of the league might doubt that baseball would issue such a punishment again and so the deterrent factor wouldn't work.

So instead, MLB played this increidbly smart. They released a heavily edited explanation of what happened with zero details and no support designed to portray MLB in the best light and the Braves in the worst. They waited until the week of Thanksgiving to do this. This is a week where vacations for writers and talking heads reduces the capacity for dissecting this move and the air that is left is being taken up by the NFL's Thanksgiving games and NCAAs rivalry weekend.

All MLB controlled outlets downplay this story publicly. The Braves issue a brief statement basically saying they're not talking about it anymore (almost certainly ordered not to discuss it by MLB) and MLB's media gives the littlest possible coverage of it.

MLB could do all this confident that Atlanta's notoriously apathetic sports journalism/media wouldn't do much more than have a brief news of the day discussion about it. All of this keeps public outrage in check.

However, you know the league is watching this closely. Every GM saw what happened. The message was sent.

 

[NYCBrave]

For such an historic MLB news story, the MLB.COM site sure is playing it down. Just one little article found in the middle of a bunch of others titled simply 'Braves penalized for int'l signing violations'. If this had happened to the Yankees, Red Sox or Cubs, this would have 10 articles vying for its top news story. Or maybe Manfred ordered them to downplay coverage so as not to stir up fan outrage. Whatever. **** all of them. I've got more important things to consider, like figure out what my new license plate should be.

Definitely done intentionally for PR purposes. Also the timing of the announcement so it would be forgotten over the holidays. Honestly, ESPN isn't even making a big deal of this either. No front page story, the headline isn't even in their top headlines anymore. Interesting.

 

[NYCBrave]

MLB's PR handling of this has been masterful. Manfred went way overboard. I be even he knows it. However, MLB knows if it was headline news that the end conclusion would be that the punishment was ridiculous and Manfred and MLB would lose a lot of credibility. The rest of the league might doubt that baseball would issue such a punishment again and so the deterrent factor wouldn't work.

So instead, MLB played this increidbly smart. They released a heavily edited explanation of what happened with zero details and no support designed to portray MLB in the best light and the Braves in the worst. They waited until the week of Thanksgiving to do this. This is a week where vacations for writers and talking heads reduces the capacity for dissecting this move and the air that is left is being taken up by the NFL's Thanksgiving games and NCAAs rivalry weekend.

All MLB controlled outlets downplay this story publicly. The Braves issue a brief statement basically saying they're not talking about it anymore (almost certainly ordered not to discuss it by MLB) and MLB's media gives the littlest possible coverage of it.

MLB could do all this confident that Atlanta's notoriously apathetic sports journalism/media wouldn't do much more than have a brief news of the day discussion about it. All of this keeps public outrage in check.

However, you know the league is watching this closely. Every GM saw what happened. The message was sent.

If you think about it though, it hits us die hards the most. The common fan will probably never understand the impact of this situation at all. They likely don't know who Maitain or these other prospects are, and don't truly understand the impact of the international market. So for the common fan, it's shocking but probably not something they believe to be super significant.

 

[percival]

What would be great (so it obviously has no chance of happening) is for the other teams to not sign ANY of these guys, and for them to wait until May 1 next year and all re-sign with the Braves.
That would send an even louder message right back at the "commissioner."

 

[striker42]

I honestly can't think of a more perfect chance for MLB to make an example of a team. The Braves were perfect.

-The Braves are high enough profile for the rest of the league to take note but not a sacred cow
-The Braves aren't such a small market team that tough sanctions devastates the team like they would for the Royals or Marlins
-The Braves have the farm system to absorb a huge drain of talent without becoming a smoking crater
-The Braves ownership is distant and doesn't put ego into the Braves so you'll get less push back
-The Braves are a team that scandal embarrasses so they'll just want it to go away.
-The Atlanta sports media wont hold MLB accountable.
-The national media doesn't care about Atlanta teams
-The Braves already fired Coppy making banning him easier.

It's just a perfect chance for MLB to hammer a team. They'll likely never be able to come down on any other team the way they were able to come down on the Braves.

 

[DaneHill]

What would be great (so it obviously has no chance of happening) is for the other teams to not sign ANY of these guys, and for them to wait until May 1 next year and all re-sign with the Braves.
That would send an even louder message right back at the "commissioner."

I like it. Of course, there'd be charges of collusion faster than you can say, well, collusion. Maybe the Braves can pay other teams to sign and hold the players for the Braves until May 1st, and then trade the players back to the Braves for a bag of balls. Haha.

 

[nsacpi]

I think that punishment is a little harsh but it's fair.

They went with a very technical by-the-book approach. Symmetry demands that the following observation be made. Technically (after the penalties), we no longer went over our spending limits in 2016 once the contracts for Maitan and company were nullified. Just sayin.

An alternative they could have taken would have been not to nullify the 2016 contracts but to put restrictions on future international spending consistent with our going over our limit in 2015. Plus a fine or whatever punitive measures they deemed appropriate.

I also think Hart should at a minimum have gotten a one-year suspension. In other businesses, failure to properly exercise supervisory responsibility can lead to sanctions besides losing your job.

 

[cajunrevenge]

They went with a very technical by-the-book approach. Symmetry demands that the following observation be made. Technically (after the penalties), we no longer went over our spending limits in 2016 once the contracts for Maitan and company were nullified. Just sayin.

An alternative they could have taken would have been not to nullify the 2016 contracts but to put restrictions on future international spending consistent with our going over our limit in 2015. Plus a fine or whatever punitive measures they deemed appropriate.

I also think Hart should at a minimum have gotten a one-year suspension. In other businesses, failure to properly exercise supervisory responsibility can lead to sanctions besides losing your job.

The part I find excessive is the 2019 and 2020 part. Minus that I think its fair. Fines for a team arent a real penalty. You could argue the Braves could just redirect the money into other areas of the team. We might save 20 million over the course of the penalty years overall. We could redirect that into a long term contract for one of our young stars or a good reliever to help the pen. Kimbrel is a FA next year, maybe this helps us bring him back.

As for Hart I think he was the snitch and he did it solely to spite Coppy. I think he took a scorched earth policy to get Coppy removed. Hart doesnt need a job.

 

[Southcack77]

They went with a very technical by-the-book approach. Symmetry demands that the following observation be made. Technically (after the penalties), we no longer went over our spending limits in 2016 once the contracts for Maitan and company were nullified. Just sayin.

An alternative they could have taken would have been not to nullify the 2016 contracts but to put restrictions on future international spending consistent with our going over our limit in 2015. Plus a fine or whatever punitive measures they deemed appropriate.

I also think Hart should at a minimum have gotten a one-year suspension. In other businesses, failure to properly exercise supervisory responsibility can lead to sanctions besides losing your job.

That's a little too technical for me. The Braves overspent in 2015 and 2016 and to me they should bear the penalty for both even if baseball imposed restitution by voiding contracts.

One odd quirk is I guess the Braves are free to sign guys under 300k in the upcoming season, then will basically be banned from signings, and then won't have limitations but will have a halved total cap. It's an odd progression.

 

[Southcack77]

The part I find excessive is the 2019 and 2020 part. Minus that I think its fair. Fines for a team arent a real penalty. You could argue the Braves could just redirect the money into other areas of the team. We might save 20 million over the course of the penalty years overall. We could redirect that into a long term contract for one of our young stars or a good reliever to help the pen. Kimbrel is a FA next year, maybe this helps us bring him back.

As for Hart I think he was the snitch and he did it solely to spite Coppy. I think he took a scorched earth policy to get Coppy removed. Hart doesnt need a job.

I think most people in Hart's position would realize that taking out Coppy would have been self immolation as far as his position with the Braves is concerned.

 

[Knucksie]

Everyone keeps going on an on about JS needing to be shown the door. In reality, he's already almost all the way out the door. Has been for a while. Firing him would be like digging someone up just to hang their corpse.

Schuerholz was focused on the new stadium, and is basically semi-retired. Hart oversaw the actual baseball operations. He's gone now. So, everything else is just to go off about who isn't "Sabermetric enough" and yak some more about "Braves way" some more.

 

[nsacpi]

there is historical precedent for digging up a corpse so as to decapitate it...just sayin...i am not opposed in the present case

 

[JxnMissFan]

I think that punishment is a little harsh but it's fair. My problems with it is rewarding the players instead of punishing them. These deals take 2 to make. Letting them kerp the money and sign a new deal only incentivizes players to take a deal like this then rat on the team to be declared a free agent.

What I would do us take that money we can't spend on international prospects and use it to try and catch other teams doing the and thing then turn then in.

I also still want a reasonable answer as to why MLB gave the Nationals 25 million last year without making it public knowledge. It's since come out but not thanks to MLB. Why keep it a secret if it was not doing anything wrong? Why does a team with 169 million payroll need 25 million. If we need 25 million we have to make cuts.

I get the idea of punish the players. But think about it a little bit. All the players involved in this were 16 or 17 years old when this happened. Based on my personal experience as a 16 year old and now watching my kids at 16 I doubt any of these kids had any idea they were breaking the rules. I'm sure most of the kids are just chattel in a money making scheme to the coaches and agents that were advising them. It's totally unacceptable to me to involve underage kids in unethical schemes. I hope these kids find good agents and get the money they deserve.

 

[mfree80]

I get the idea of punish the players. But think about it a little bit. All the players involved in this were 16 or 17 years old when this happened. Based on my personal experience as a 16 year old and now watching my kids at 16 I doubt any of these kids had any idea they were breaking the rules. I'm sure most of the kids are just chattel in a money making scheme to the coaches and agents that were advising them. It's totally unacceptable to me to involve underage kids in unethical schemes. I hope these kids find good agents and get the money they deserve.

Not the kids, obviously, but the "Handlers" who are masters at gaming the system. Teams have to play by their rules or be cut off from access to the top players. The only solution would be for every team to refuse to play their game... but one team breaking ranks is enough to keep the system alive. I'll bet some teams are going to claim that is exactly what happened and the Braves were the team that broke ranks.