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Buzzworm said:
8.Andrew-don't think he gets in but if Ozzie Smith and Brooks Robinson get in by being all timers on defense then why not Andrew?
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Post season heroics. If Braves won in '96, AJ would've won WS MVP. Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith were very well liked by baseball writers. (Compare with Gold Club ...and yes there is a character clause.) Robinson also had an AL MVP, had led the league in an important offensive category (RBI) and 15 straight All Star game appearances. He's there for more than just defense. Bill Mazeroski would be the one in more for defense, but as much for HR vs. Yankees in '61. (Also was Veteran's Committee selection.)

400 HR without ever having led the NL in any important offensive category is what deters voters. Crime Dog had almost 500, and is not in the conversation.
 
Knucksie said:
Post season heroics. If Braves won in '96, AJ would've won WS MVP. Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith were very well liked by baseball writers. (Compare with Gold Club ...and yes there is a character clause.) Robinson also had an AL MVP, had led the league in an important offensive category (RBI) and 15 straight All Star game appearances. He's there for more than just defense. Bill Mazeroski would be the one in more for defense, but as much for HR vs. Yankees in '61. (Also was Veteran's Committee selection.)

400 HR without ever having led the NL in any important offensive category is what deters voters. Crime Dog had almost 500, and is not in the conversation.
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Andruw was tops in the NL in both HR and RBI in 2005.
 
jpx7 said:
Andruw was tops in the NL in both HR and RBI in 2005.
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Stand corrected. He also led in ABs one previous year with whatever that counts. Still, perception is going to be that he wasn't "best of the the best" among voters. They're not going to forget his massive drop off during the last contract, which might make some voters suspicious that he might've had some "help" (not necessarily my own opinion).
 
Knucksie said:
Post season heroics. If Braves won in '96, AJ would've won WS MVP. Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith were very well liked by baseball writers. (Compare with Gold Club ...and yes there is a character clause.) Robinson also had an AL MVP, had led the league in an important offensive category (RBI) and 15 straight All Star game appearances. He's there for more than just defense. Bill Mazeroski would be the one in more for defense, but as much for HR vs. Yankees in '61. (Also was Veteran's Committee selection.)

400 HR without ever having led the NL in any important offensive category is what deters voters. Crime Dog had almost 500, and is not in the conversation.
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Crime Dog was a 1b, and they are expected to put up that sort of production. Andruw redefined defense at one of the most important positions for it...
 
Tapate50 said:
Crime Dog was a 1b, and they are expected to put up that sort of production. Andruw redefined defense at one of the most important positions for it...
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Only telling what the threshold is: 500 HRs or 300 wins for a pitcher, and there have obviously been cases with the player having to wait (and, with 500+ HRs not getting in at all).

Anyway, we've been through all if this before. The level of support is not that great. Defense has only been the overriding factor for Ozzie Smith and Bill Mazeroski, in addition to big playoff heroics when lots watched. It's not a huge precedent. Voters are transparent. Some will admit that if they have to ask questions in mind, the player is not a HOFer.

Btw, agree that Bonds and Clemens were HOFers before juicing up. These were the no doubter with the hardware to prove it.
 
I think being the greatest defensive centerfielder of all time statistically and via the eye test for a decade should matter.

Andruw was leagues ahead of anyone else in Center. And he had a higher WAR than Pujols in 2005. Robbed of an MVP
 
Forever Fredi said:
I think being the greatest defensive centerfielder of all time statistically and via the eye test for a decade should matter.

Andruw was leagues ahead of anyone else in Center. And he had a higher WAR than Pujols in 2005. Robbed of an MVP
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If you're going to make good on your promise, we can discuss all related issues on induction weekend for Chipper next August.
 
Also for those wondering, out of the 7 public ballots announced so far, Chipper is 6 do 7 and Andruw is 2 out of 7. Andruw needs 20 more votes to stay on the ballot. Vizquel and Thome both 7 for 7 so far
 
Forever Fredi said:
Also for those wondering, out of the 7 public ballots announced so far, Chipper is 6 do 7 and Andruw is 2 out of 7. Andruw needs 20 more votes to stay on the ballot. Vizquel and Thome both 7 for 7 so far
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I haven't been plugged into much discussion of this year's class, so I'm surprised to see Vizquel on 7 of 7. Interesting.
 
Knucksie said:
Stand corrected. He also led in ABs one previous year with whatever that counts. Still, perception is going to be that he wasn't "best of the the best" among voters. They're not going to forget his massive drop off during the last contract, which might make some voters suspicious that he might've had some "help" (not necessarily my own opinion).
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From 1998 to 2007 WAR leaders... How far do you think you have to get down the list before you hit Andrew's name? I'll tell you: Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Andruw Jones. Number 3
 
BeanieAntics said:
From 1998 to 2007 WAR leaders... How far do you think you have to get down the list before you hit Andrew's name? I'll tell you: Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Andruw Jones. Number 3
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I think you may be looking for 97-06.

But yes, wupk shared that with me During a 10 year period in baseball, only Bonds and A-Rod were best in baseball by WAR over Andruw. Out of those three, Andruw the only one with no connections to PEDs.
 
Forever Fredi said:
I think you may be looking for 97-06.

But yes, wupk shared that with me During a 10 year period in baseball, only Bonds and A-Rod were best in baseball by WAR over Andruw. Out of those three, Andruw the only one with no connections to PEDs.
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Ahh your right, window was a year earlier lol
 
BeanieAntics said:
From 1998 to 2007 WAR leaders... How far do you think you have to get down the list before you hit Andrew's name? I'll tell you: Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Andruw Jones. Number 3
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We'll see what the perception is when the votes are counted. Some if you are going to be very disappointed.
 
Knucksie said:
We'll see what the perception is when the votes are counted. Some if you are going to be very disappointed.
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I'm not arguing that Andruw is going to get in. I'm arguing that he SHOULD get in, and if he doesn't it is evidence that the whole process needs revamping
 
I wonder if anyone has ever questioned Andruws age.

He was such a phenom so early and fell off the face of the earth so fast. But, he was signed during the era of falsified birth dates on the International signing market
 
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