Stanton

nsacpi said:
Giants definitely heading toward a cliff. But I think they can hold on for three years if they have Stanton, Posey, Bumgarner, Crawford. After that its gonna get ugly.
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But it you are Stanton I think you have to look at any trade like the team you are going to will be your home throughout your contract and there will be no opt out. Of course, in the back of his mind Stanton thinks if things go well.....But things might not, they might go only ok, after all SF isn't a hitters haven, worse than Miami even.

Everyone seems to be looking at this from the Marlins standpoint only.

Prior Marlins ownership signed Stanton to the contract. Current Marlins ownership bought the team knowing what the contract said. Stanton should have as much say in things as his contract allows, which is a lot.

If you put yourself in Stanton's shoes you have a lot of things to consider beyond wins and losses. IMO, he has all the cards and should play them to his advantage. I would say that the best place for him would be with the Texas Rangers or Houston Astros - no State tax, AL clubs so he can DH from time to time. Texas spends money to compete. Houston is in the middle of what looks like a long competitive window. etc.

With his money he could buy a house in Cali and live there offseason if he wants. But he doesn't want to reside there from a tax perspective and the baseball is pretty chancey unless you force your way onto the Dodgers.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
But it you are Stanton I think you have to look at any trade like the team you are going to will be your home throughout your contract and there will be no opt out. Of course, in the back of his mind Stanton thinks if things go well.....But things might not, they might go only ok, after all SF isn't a hitters haven, worse than Miami even.

Everyone seems to be looking at this from the Marlins standpoint only.

Prior Marlins ownership signed Stanton to the contract. Current Marlins ownership bought the team knowing what the contract said. Stanton should have as much say in things as his contract allows, which is a lot.

If you put yourself in Stanton's shoes you have a lot of things to consider beyond wins and losses. IMO, he has all the cards and should play them to his advantage. I would say that the best place for him would be with the Texas Rangers or Houston Astros - no State tax, AL clubs so he can DH from time to time. Texas spends money to compete. Houston is in the middle of what looks like a long competitive window. etc.

With his money he could buy a house in Cali and live there offseason if he wants. But he doesn't want to reside there from a tax perspective and the baseball is pretty chancey unless you force your way onto the Dodgers.
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Well he has some control. But there is something hanging over him that will likely motivate him to accept a deal, even if it not the Dodgers. The Marlins have made it clear that plan B in their drive to cut payroll is to combine guys like Ozuna with guys with bad contracts and move them. If he wants to spend the next few years with a team likely to lose 90+ games, then yeah he has some control. If that prospect is really unpalatable to him, suddenly he is playing with a much weaker hand.
 
nsacpi said:
Well he has some control. But there is something hanging over him that will likely motivate him to accept a deal, even if it not the Dodgers. The Marlins have made it clear that plan B in their drive to cut payroll is to combine guys like Ozuna with guys with bad contracts and move them. If he wants to spend the next few years with a team likely to lose 90+ games, then yeah he has some control. If that prospect is really unpalatable to him, suddenly he is playing with a much weaker hand.
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Of course that is how the new Marlins management is playing it.

However, if you are Stanton do you think they will stop trying to trade him even after they go with so called Plan B? I very much doubt it. They would be in full rebuild mode and would have no need to hang on to the potential liability of a 10 year $300M contract (Stanton could always get hurt). So what if they trade Ozuna, Yelich, etc. if you are Stanton? They still are going to try to move you.

Marlins management is presenting him with the Plan B scenario in hopes to get him to accept a trade that is less than optimal for him. Call their bluff.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Of course that is how the new Marlins management is playing it.

However, if you are Stanton do you think they will stop trying to trade him even after they go with so called Plan B? I very much doubt it. They would be in full rebuild mode and would have no need to hang on to the potential liability of a 10 year $300M contract (Stanton could always get hurt). So what if they trade Ozuna, Yelich, etc. if you are Stanton? They still are going to try to move you.

Marlins management is presenting him with the Plan B scenario in hopes to get him to accept a trade that is less than optimal for him. Call their bluff.
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I don’t know why it’s presented as plan B. It should just be “the plan”. They need to move those guys regardlsss of Stanton to rebuild.
 
Oklahomabrave said:
I don’t know why it’s presented as plan B. It should just be “the plan”. They need to move those guys regardlsss of Stanton to rebuild.
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It probably is but they are leveraging Stanton with the possibility that he may get stuck on a terrible rebuilding team in effort to improve the market. They want to trade Stanton, get back as much as possible and send as little money the other way as possible. To do that they need as much competition between teams as they can get. Right now they've got the Cards bidding against the Giants and neither team knows if Stanton will accept (presumably the Marlens FO has given them some type of indication that he might).
 
Horsehide Harry said:
It probably is but they are leveraging Stanton with the possibility that he may get stuck on a terrible rebuilding team in effort to improve the market. They want to trade Stanton, get back as much as possible and send as little money the other way as possible. To do that they need as much competition between teams as they can get. Right now they've got the Cards bidding against the Giants and neither team knows if Stanton will accept (presumably the Marlens FO has given them some type of indication that he might).
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There is a conflict between the Marlins desire to have a competitive market for Stanton as you note in this post and Stanton's desire to go to the Dodgers. I wouldn't go so far as to say either the Marlins or Stanton have the upper hand or all of the cards as you put it in an earlier post in this situation.
 
Oklahomabrave said:
I don’t know why it’s presented as plan B. It should just be “the plan”. They need to move those guys regardlsss of Stanton to rebuild.
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Or they could do something crazy and actually try to win games while they have low cost good players.

Realistically, thought, I guess if what I read about them trying to get payroll down to 60 million by 2019 they might as well just tear it down, though that's the absolute worse way to introduce yourself to that fan base. New boss same as the old boss.
 
Southcack77 said:
Or they could do something crazy and actually try to win games while they have low cost good players.

Realistically, thought, I guess if what I read about them trying to get payroll down to 60 million by 2019 they might as well just tear it down, though that's the absolute worse way to introduce yourself to that fan base. New boss same as the old boss.
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The problems for the Marlins is trying to win with the Volquez and Chen contracts. To some extent the Prado contract as well. It is hard for small and mid-market teams to contend when dealing with so much in the way of sunk costs.

There are other teams in similar situations. The Kennedy and Gordon contracts are significant impediments to the Royals contending.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
How will Stanton handle State tax of Cali vs FLA?

That's like paying an additional agent who does nothing.

If I'm Stanton, I get exactly what I want or I tell them to do what they have to do with the rest of the team. He might have suffer in Florida until his opt out but if he goes to the aging Giants there is NO guarantee that he won't walk into the Walking Dead of franchises.

Chances are though, he would get exactly what he wants and the Marlins would get less what they want (talent in return, move as much contract as they can).

And, one year might be all he has to stay if Florida. Whoever misses on the big ticket FA next year will still have their bag of money to spend...
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There's some odd clause somewhere (only heard part of the discussion the other day) that allows for the teams to negotiate that issue in the deal so that the player "remains whole" and gets the full amount of money he was promised when the original deal was reached. The numbers are only speculative on my part, but if the difference in taxes before he could opt-out were the holdup, I can't imagine Miami would let $10 million get in the way of them unloading $250 million.

Ben can probably track that info down.

Just another example of how strong the MLBPA is.
 
Giants general manager Bobby Evans confirmed Wednesday that the Giants have come to terms on a trade for Giancarlo Stanton.
Evans noted that the deal has contingencies, including the largest and most obvious obstacle: Stanton's full no-trade clause. Evans also confirmed that the reigning National League MVP was present for the Giants' presentation on Thursday in Los Angeles, telling the San Francisco Chronicle that he believes both parties came away impressed with the other. Earlier on Wednesday it was reported that San Francisco expects to have a decision from Stanton by the end of the week. It sounds like the Giants are the favorite here, over the Dodgers and Cardinals.

According to rotoworld.
 
Heyward said:
Giants general manager Bobby Evans confirmed Wednesday that the Giants have come to terms on a trade for Giancarlo Stanton.

Evans noted that the deal has contingencies, including the largest and most obvious obstacle: Stanton's full no-trade clause. Evans also confirmed that the reigning National League MVP was present for the Giants' presentation on Thursday in Los Angeles, telling the San Francisco Chronicle that he believes both parties came away impressed with the other. Earlier on Wednesday it was reported that San Francisco expects to have a decision from Stanton by the end of the week. It sounds like the Giants are the favorite here, over the Dodgers and Cardinals.

According to rotoworld.
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One thing I think is interesting about the Stanton saga is how the Dodgers have never really seemed interested.

Should it be a warning to other teams that one of the best organizations at evaluating talent and with the deepest pockets doesn't want him.
 
JxnMissFan said:
One thing I think is interesting about the Stanton saga is how the Dodgers have never really seemed interested.

Should it be a warning to other teams that one of the best organizations at evaluating talent and with the deepest pockets doesn't want him.
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I think it's more that they simply don't need him. Were he to fall in their laps with an impossibly good offer, I'm sure they'd find a way to make room for him; but they have no incentive to give up value for him.
 
jpx7 said:
I think it's more that they simply don't need him. Were he to fall in their laps with an impossibly good offer, I'm sure they'd find a way to make room for him; but they have no incentive to give up value for him.
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They did have Kemp.

Stanton is not a good risk.
 
Super said:
Yeah, Stanton will age much better than Kemp has.
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Maybe, but at 26, Kemp was a 8 WAR player who won a gold glove playing center field. Don't think anyone saw him on a trajectory that saw him as basically unplayable in left field at 32. Maybe one you bright minds was on that at the time, but I don't recall it being a topic of general discussion.

Stanton is not a gold glover. He just had his career year at 27 in a juiced ball season. He's had injuries already and showed inconsistency at the plate.
 
Southcack77 said:
Maybe, but at 26, Kemp was a 8 WAR player who won a gold glove playing center field. Don't think anyone saw him on a trajectory that saw him as basically unplayable in left field at 32. Maybe one you bright minds was on that at the time, but I don't recall it being a topic of general discussion.

Stanton is not a gold glover. He just had his career year at 27 in a juiced ball season. He's had injuries already and showed inconsistency at the plate.
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I'd argue Stanton is a better hitter who doesn't rely on his feet at all.
 
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