50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I would suggest that if you plan on eating Kemp, you should start with his Honey Baked Hamstrings. Lot of meat on those bones.
2017 Winter Meetings Predictions, Rumors, And Actual Happenings
- Thread starter clvclv
- Start date
I would suggest that if you plan on eating Kemp, you should start with his Honey Baked Hamstrings. Lot of meat on those bones.
The lack of any activity is definitely frustrating. I looked back at what each team has done so far this offseason and we're in a small group who has done the least amount to improve our situation The Royals signing Willy Peralta is even more than we've done so far.
Besides us these are the teams who have done nothing. Orioles, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Rays, Giants, Pirates, Brewers, Dodgers, Reds
Even out of those teams there's current rumblings for all except Pirates, Brewers, Dodgers, and Reds.
So we are in a very small group of teams doing nothing. We're also the one team coming off of 3 years losing and a huge scandal. So yeah, we need something more than anyone
Besides us these are the teams who have done nothing. Orioles, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Rays, Giants, Pirates, Brewers, Dodgers, Reds
Even out of those teams there's current rumblings for all except Pirates, Brewers, Dodgers, and Reds.
So we are in a very small group of teams doing nothing. We're also the one team coming off of 3 years losing and a huge scandal. So yeah, we need something more than anyone
Damn, Hannibal.
If the Braves payroll is going to be around $110M, and they are going to buy out the rest of Kemp's deal this year, then their entire offseason so far makes complete sense. That would put the 2018 payroll at $106M, meaning no money for guys like Headley, or the dozen BP arms that were signed this week. Also meaning trimming every single dollar possible from the current roster by non-tendering and desperately trading everyone possible.
I've never wanted to be wrong more than I do now.
I think the payroll is going to be higher and I highly doubt we're eating his whole contract this year and telling the fans to F off like that. Horrible PR
I know you say "but take Stanton off the table", but you continue bringing him up. The Braves NEVER had a chance to land Stanton no matter what wild and wacky proposals about eating money, sending Kemp back, whatever that anyone came up with.
The man told the Marlins he'd accept a trade to 4 teams - the Braves weren't one of them. Not playing on Headley (thus far) is a head-scratcher since they've said they want a 1 year stopgap, but the Yankees weren't going to give Frazier away just to move Headley. The cost to land Headley was cheap - the cost to land Frazier won't be.
Ozuna made no sense given our timeline - you'd only have him for 2019 considering the fact that there was very little we could do to be a legitimate contender this spring.
So far it certainly does look like any improvements will come from within in 2018 - the funny thing is, it's December 14th.
Just listened to an interview with Bobby Evans (Giants), and he continually stressed that they have no interest in signing any free-agents who rejected a QO if they can help it. That means they're out on Moustakas and Cain. The Mutts continue to say they're not spending. If the Angels get Headley, they certainly won't play on Moose (and may not anyway since they have Valbuena. Maybe the Cards make a play for him if they can't pry Donaldson away from Toronto, but that would make Gyorko available. Boston could make a play if they moved Devers to 1B, but that would likely take them out of the bidding for JDM or Hosmer. There's literally nobody else likely to go after him. I understand the reasoning several people have in preferring to pass on Moose, but at this rate he may very well drop into our laps (with Borass having to swallow hard on his asking price) if AA simply stays patient.
Nunez is still out there. Cozart is still out there (for now). The Pirates are shopping both Josh Harrison and McCutchen - both of whom could be 1 year stopgaps (Harrison has two options, so you could probably trade him next winter if you go with Riley). Lance Lynn is still out there. Jaime Garcia John Lackey, Chacin, and Chris Tillman are still out there as potential 1 year stopgaps in the event AA wants to break the younger arms in in the pen (or put Fried or Newcomb out there). Wade Davis and Addison Reed are still out there. Huston Street might not be a bad gamble on a 1 year deal to see if he's got anything left in the tank.
Camp doesn't open for 2 months - the "deals" on free-agents won't start appearing until now, and the biggest trades are yet to be made. There's no need for AA to be in too big a hurry to make something happen.
We should probably add a bet to the bet thread. You think payroll is going up, I think it's going down. Let's set the over/under at $125M.
Or just sidestep the bet challenge haha.
I've said $120M since the beginning because I think that's more along what the payroll was supposed to be last year counting flipping Colon/Garcia in July. So in that case I'd be under.
Edit...I see where I said I think the payroll is going to be higher...I meant higher than $110M
Southcack77
Well-known member
I would make all my efforts with Kemp about freeing as much 2019 salary as possible. If that means basically paying for him to play for someone else in 2018, I would be good with that. That's an effective use of 2018 payroll if you can free 2019 payroll. You could let him play out the season and then see if you can move him as a 1 year DH and get someone to bite on some amount you would have to pay him, but I'm not sure I see Kemp as a good trooper and it just seems like things might be better off if he was gone no later than whenever they decide to promote Acuna.
I suppose its possible he again comes back in shape and again starts the season strong and that maybe he stays healthy. If you want to roll the dice and see if that happens, I understand, but I would prefer to cut bait.
Teheran, I have no strong opinion on. I think waiting on a bounce back is fine, but I also don't think any team is going to give up very much to acquire him even if he does have one. We saw this did not happen before last season and I don't think he'll be better off now. Honestly, I'm not so sure that keeping as a veteran presence near the end of the rotation for the remainder of his deal would necessarily be that bad. He's probably reasonably likely to earn his paycheck over that period.
I just don't see much urgency at all in this offseason. I Don't think they are particularly close to a run and if they want to wait and see what they have, I would be good with it. It's what I would do. If they get aggressive and make some big moves, that would also be ok with me, though I sure don't want them to deplete the farm too much, because i don't think what they can do now is especially likely to lead them to win any championships.
Southcack77
Well-known member
the Braves were never going to be in on Stanton, because the Braves could not have risked his not opting out of that contract and being stuck paying 20% of their payroll for the next ten years to a declining OF. That was never realistic and its why it was never reported anywhere that the Braves had any interest.
Only a handful of teams are capable of absorbing that.
Not to mention the small thing that the Braves were not on Stanton's list.
This was never realistic whatsoever. As I told you, months ago.
Southcack77
Well-known member
You're assuming they could have made the Cards do that and I don't think they could have. The Cards are trying to win and don't have an unlimited payroll. They aren't going to throw 13 million dollars away while trying to contend.
You are correct. The original poster was assuming the Fish would have taken a lesser package for Ozuna if the team agreed to take on salary. I was stating how that was very presumptious, much like my reply was.
Southcack77
Well-known member
the Yankees move suggest that they didn't think that anyone would give them anything and take on Headley's salary. Since they are smart, seems like they probably would be right.
So the Padres came along and offered to take all his money in exchange for prospect the Yankees didn't care about losing. A lottery ticket. So why would they wait around for something else? I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with the player's preference, though perhaps they did ask him what he thought and he was like Great.
To me, it's likely the Padres pay a little bit of his salary and try to flip him again for another prospect they find interesting, or simply play him at 3B as a selling point for their fans and then spin off someone like Solarte who might bring back something interesting. I guess that could still be a smart play by them if they do it right. Or hell, maybe they think they are going to win this year without any pitching.
I don't think this is true at all.
The Cards were going to assume about $235M of Stanton's contract and send a pretty underwhelming group of prospects. Assuming the $60M the Marlins were going to eat would be due only if Stanton opted in (consistent with the $30M paid to the Yankees), Stanton's contract would have broken down as:
2018: $25M
2019: $26M
2020: $26M (opt out/in)
2021-2027: ~$20M
If the Braves young pitchers had not completely crapped the bed in 2016 and 2017, the Braves would be in position to potentially add that kind of contract with a $130M payroll in 2018 that should be rising.
Stanton almost certainly wouldn't have agreed to a trade to the Braves, but to say there was no way the Braves would never have been in on him is completely wrong.
Southcack77
Well-known member
I can only say that I predicted they wouldn't be and they weren't. I can't account for realities essentially identical to this one where they were in on him. And apparently even in those realities, Stanton vetoes the deal so what are we even talking about?
There's a good chance they're both 1.5 win players next year over a fullseason, so it's not that far off base. I still say getting a legit upgrade at 3B and having Camargo as your supersub is the best way to go.
I'm not buying the fact we're only looking at 3B with a year left because we think Riley is going to be ready in 2019.
You are 100% correct.
Teams trying to compete benefit from limiting potential downside with guys like Headley.
Teams not trying to compete benefit from giving chances to guys like Camargo.
It's looking like the Braves will be giving Camargo a lot of PAs. That's fine, but they need to keep the game plan consistent. Don't leave Camargo at 3B and then spend resources on a win-now SP, for example.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Of course they want it all. Who doesn't? That's what the whole Stanton to the Giants or Cards stuff was about - the new ownership at the Fish trying to leverage Stanton to go where they wanted him to go not where he wanted to go. They wanted MAX salary relief and Max prospects. Didn't work. So they moved Stanton for very little which gave them some salary relief but not enough.
Would the Cards have taken the dead money of Volquez to get Ozuna? Maybe but probably not. They don't have to because they have other options available to them and they let the Fish know that. What do you think all the Longoria rumors were about?