BeanieAntics
Arbitration Eligible
Even if you have that gripe, this trade does nothing but moves up our potential timetable so the gripe is oddly placed in this thread.
Matt Kemp to Dodgers!
- Thread starter Oklahomabrave
- Start date
Even if you have that gripe, this trade does nothing but moves up our potential timetable so the gripe is oddly placed in this thread.
That season is 2019 when the Braves will have something like 80 million to take on in FA/trades.
CrimsonCowboy
Moderator
Who is not thinking about 2018? Yes, this trade helps for possible free agent acquisitions for 2019, but that doesn’t mean anyone is looking past ‘18. Especially with a full season of Albies and the coming of Acuna. Think you’re reaching on this one.
And we improved the starting rotation with Mcarthey. Sneaky salary move here.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Do mine eyes deceive me? Has AA turned Enscheff posi?
I think that might be my favorite part of this trade!
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Glad to see you mention trades instead of only FA. 80 million will get eaten up quickly at today's FA prices. I would much prefer the big money additions be trades for the last couple of years of free agents who were signed 4 or 5 years ago.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Deester11
Well-known member
And there it is. This truly was forward thinking without punting away a couple of years. Complaints on this deal is misplaced for sure.
Maybe AA has a bigger plan...This deal makes me long even more for a Yelich deal. We could include a pitcher which we expected to pitch this year (like Tehran).
If we could do give them a ready type package Teheran, Anderson, Wilson, Demerritte, Cruz for Yelich & Prado.
2018 will both be competitive while also a year to assess where we are before the big FA class.
Outfield - Yelich, Ender, Acuna (should be set for years)
Infield - Freeman, Albies, Swanson (should be set for years)
Prado/Flowers (short term) while we watch and see what Riley & Jackson can really become.
Spend the year evaluating the success of young pitchers (both in Atlanta and coming soon)
Still will have about ~$70M space for 2019.
If we could do give them a ready type package Teheran, Anderson, Wilson, Demerritte, Cruz for Yelich & Prado.
2018 will both be competitive while also a year to assess where we are before the big FA class.
Outfield - Yelich, Ender, Acuna (should be set for years)
Infield - Freeman, Albies, Swanson (should be set for years)
Prado/Flowers (short term) while we watch and see what Riley & Jackson can really become.
Spend the year evaluating the success of young pitchers (both in Atlanta and coming soon)
Still will have about ~$70M space for 2019.
I'd be curious what a Yelich and Prado package would cost the Braves in prospects. Of prospects that haven't made their MLB debut I'd be down to include any names that aren't Acuna and Wright.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/reactions-to-and-effects-of-dodgers-braves-trade.html
“Having completed this trade, it seems the Braves’ heavy lifting for the offseason is mostly over, as David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution details. They improved their defense by getting rid of Kemp, thus freeing up a spot in the outfield for elite prospect Ronald Acuna (he’ll be in the majors early in 2018, whether it’s Opening Day or a bit later); added a veteran starter in McCarthy (possibly two if Kazmir recovers from a hip injury); and landed a backup infielder they like in Culberson. While Anthopoulos said the Braves could still seek a third baseman and relief help, he noted that those areas are not priorities, O’Brien writes.”
As I’ve been saying for months, the Braves 2018 payroll is likely to be ~$110M. They are now right at the edge of that number, so they can’t afford many other additions.
They have punted 2018, and set themselves up to be major players next offseason.
I give AA an A- on this trade. It would have been an A+ if they had gotten a position prospect as the positive portion of the deal rather then McCarthy and Culberson.
Hudson2
Well-known member
Agreed. Wright and Acuna would be untouchable. So I’d offer Allard, Anderson, Pache, and Soroka if that’s what it took. That would still give us Wright, Gohara, Folty, Newcomb, Teheran, Fried, Sims, McCarthy, Touki, and Wilson as rotation options with Weigel as rotation options going forward.
BeanieAntics
Arbitration Eligible
If we were offering Allard, Anderson, and Pache, but still needed to include more, Soroka feels like overkill. I would really prefer to hang on to him in that scenario, and I think with those first three that is definitely possible. I would include Wentz maybe
Demeritte was just available via Rule V. Doubt he has much, if any, trade value. And it's very unlikely the Marlins would have much interest in Teheran since they are entering a rebiuld. A 3 way trade with JT going to the Yankees or
Twins and prospects going to the Marlins would make more sense.
Something like:
Yankees get Julio and maybe a reliever from Miami
Marlins get Frazier, Allard, Pache, Albert Abreu
Braves get Yelich and Prado
Twins and prospects going to the Marlins would make more sense.
Something like:
Yankees get Julio and maybe a reliever from Miami
Marlins get Frazier, Allard, Pache, Albert Abreu
Braves get Yelich and Prado
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Still would like to see the Braves move Teheran and Folty. I can see the reasoning for keeping Inciarte, even if I don't 100% agree with it. I can also see the reason to keep Freeman, even though I think his value to the team in 2019 and beyond would be better utilized as a trade piece in 2018...assuming an acceptable return.
But Teheran is really just a place holder right now, a guy whose main value resides in his contract control and reasonable cost. I think everyone can now agree that he's not an ACE or a #1 and will never be one. I think almost all would agree that he's not a #2 and unlikely to ever be one. he's a #3 in a good year, #4 in an average year on a good contract and the Braves, considering the focus of the rebuild, should have no problem trotting out that kind of guy over the next few years from internal minor league candidates.
Folty is a bit different in that he's still relatively cheap and still has the possibility of further development. If you trade him now and the miracle light bulb comes on in ST2018, then you've made a bad trade. However, if the miracle light bulb comes on for him in ST2020 (or never), then you've carried him as a 3 or 4 through his control years only to have him blossom when you can no longer afford him. To me, it becomes a risk/reward equation where it's possible that there are teams out there willing to gamble on being able to flip the switch on his miracle light bulb.
I wouldn't give either away. But I would shop both in hopes of getting a solid return and lining up even better for that 2018/19 offseason.
Some teams I could see with interest would be Milwaukee, Minnesota, NYY, Baltimore, Toronto, Houston, Seattle, LAA, Colorado and maybe the Pirates. Those teams at least have some need for pitching and are in their window.
The idea of hanging on to Teheran to rebuild value doesn't really do anything for me since I think teams won't change the way they value Teheran enough because of a 1/2 good season when weighed against the loss of that 1/2 seasons cost control. To think Teheran can improve his value significantly through his play is to believe that he can put in a star quality season. I don't think he can do that. But if he does, then the Braves won't trade him anyway. So those urging to hold on to him to see if he can rebuild value are really saying don't trade him at all. Keep him until the end of his contract regardless of performance. I see that as a low probability play for success.
Maybe Teheran to Milwaukee for OF Brett Phillips and OF Tristen Lutz, two OF the Brewers could move where Lutz is a better long term piece but Phillips might develop into the everyday CF allowing for a trade of Inciarte.
Maybe Folty and Markakis (plus $5.5M cash) to Baltimore for OF Austin Hays and RHP Hunter Harvey. Braves move Muk to a team that would want him and pick up a LF option and a live long term arm.
But Teheran is really just a place holder right now, a guy whose main value resides in his contract control and reasonable cost. I think everyone can now agree that he's not an ACE or a #1 and will never be one. I think almost all would agree that he's not a #2 and unlikely to ever be one. he's a #3 in a good year, #4 in an average year on a good contract and the Braves, considering the focus of the rebuild, should have no problem trotting out that kind of guy over the next few years from internal minor league candidates.
Folty is a bit different in that he's still relatively cheap and still has the possibility of further development. If you trade him now and the miracle light bulb comes on in ST2018, then you've made a bad trade. However, if the miracle light bulb comes on for him in ST2020 (or never), then you've carried him as a 3 or 4 through his control years only to have him blossom when you can no longer afford him. To me, it becomes a risk/reward equation where it's possible that there are teams out there willing to gamble on being able to flip the switch on his miracle light bulb.
I wouldn't give either away. But I would shop both in hopes of getting a solid return and lining up even better for that 2018/19 offseason.
Some teams I could see with interest would be Milwaukee, Minnesota, NYY, Baltimore, Toronto, Houston, Seattle, LAA, Colorado and maybe the Pirates. Those teams at least have some need for pitching and are in their window.
The idea of hanging on to Teheran to rebuild value doesn't really do anything for me since I think teams won't change the way they value Teheran enough because of a 1/2 good season when weighed against the loss of that 1/2 seasons cost control. To think Teheran can improve his value significantly through his play is to believe that he can put in a star quality season. I don't think he can do that. But if he does, then the Braves won't trade him anyway. So those urging to hold on to him to see if he can rebuild value are really saying don't trade him at all. Keep him until the end of his contract regardless of performance. I see that as a low probability play for success.
Maybe Teheran to Milwaukee for OF Brett Phillips and OF Tristen Lutz, two OF the Brewers could move where Lutz is a better long term piece but Phillips might develop into the everyday CF allowing for a trade of Inciarte.
Maybe Folty and Markakis (plus $5.5M cash) to Baltimore for OF Austin Hays and RHP Hunter Harvey. Braves move Muk to a team that would want him and pick up a LF option and a live long term arm.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
If things go well we will have some starting pitching to trade to fill any needs. Certainly we will have a need in left. Probably a need at third.
Assuming continued good health (always a big assumption with starting pitchers), we will finish 2018 with Teheran (under contractual control through 2020), Folty (2021), McCarthy (option for 2019) and young guys like Newcomb, Gohara, Soroka and Allard all major league ready. Possibly Sims and Fried if they figure a few things out. It is going to be a good situation. The only way this rebuild will work given all the resources we've devoted to pitching is to be able to trade out of a pitching surplus to fill in other areas of need.
Assuming continued good health (always a big assumption with starting pitchers), we will finish 2018 with Teheran (under contractual control through 2020), Folty (2021), McCarthy (option for 2019) and young guys like Newcomb, Gohara, Soroka and Allard all major league ready. Possibly Sims and Fried if they figure a few things out. It is going to be a good situation. The only way this rebuild will work given all the resources we've devoted to pitching is to be able to trade out of a pitching surplus to fill in other areas of need.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Agree. But I prefer to do that now. I don't believe that Teheran nor Folty will build more value over the coming season than they will lose due to the loss of control time. And I see both as having less long term value than most of the young guys (those with real value) since they are getting older (Teheran especially) and more expensive with less control (Folty).
What part of “playing it conservative for the first year” do folks not understand?
I agree. JT would have to have a career year in order to significantly improve his value. Just repeating his 2016 or 2014 performances really wouldn't move the needle much in terms of his value. He'd have less control and be a year older. Trading him now is the best course of action.