The Trump Presidency

Runnin said:
What country doesn't have "real issues"? I think the argument here is that you and Trump are saying something like a person's, or even an immigrant's, worth is based on where they come from.

I'd like to know what truth you think Trump is calling out.
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And with a merit based immigration system those people will still be able to come into the country. But to close our eyes and let people in from countries that have SEVERE issues is a fools policy.

The truth Trump is calling out is that these countries are ****holes. Do you want to defend that Haiti/Mexico/many African nations aren't?
 
thethe said:
Are you trying to say that the counties referenced do not have real issues? What is the argument here? We need to house these people because the countries they are from are not good for their kids but we can't say the country is not good?

Its a bit confusing to follow the logic here and why people are inflamed at Trump calling out a truth.
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You're right. People don't tend to emigrate from more stable and prosperous countries to ones that are less so. You generally ignore that a huge component of our history is accepting and assimilating people from all over the world. You want to slam the door NOW, which I think is a tad shortsighted and lacking in perspective. We disagree, but that's ultimately a difference in policy.

Calling those places "****holes" is a slur, though. And, in context, it's unavoidably demeaning to the people from those "****holes." This is in the same category as my complaints to you that you will not have an immigration conversation without defaming and dehumanizing the people involved. You say that they're criminals, terrorists, gang members, etc... in light of that, it's not at all surprising that you're defending the president here.

Another issue here is lack of historical perspective. Not just the history of immigration in America, but the histories of many of these Global South countries as they relate to the US, et al.
 
Who wants to shut the door? I want a full merit based system and I don't even think I would put a restriction on the number. I don't care where you are from. If you have skills and don't need the government ot support then by all means enjoy the fruit of the greatest nation the world has ever seen.
 
Do I have to post stories about immigrants that kill people as well? Does this one story change what makes sense for a nation as a whole?
 
Thethe

Not sure what’s compelling you to carry Trump’s water on this one. Even he is trying to walk back the comment.

Let’s say we take him at his word that he was referring to the country and not it’s people. The implication here is that merit is based on the quality of your country and not on the quality of the individual. And this ignores the fact that the US and other prosperous nations should be the leaders in helping displaced peoples.
 
thethe said:
Do I have to post stories about immigrants that kill people as well? Does this one story change what makes sense for a nation as a whole?
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What do you mean? You do that already. We get plenty of rapist-gangbanger-welfare sponge-terrorist rhetoric from you. Just consider this a nice counterpoint. Consider also all the people who are not paragons of virtue or vice, but just people like you and me.

But the bottom line is that this young officer, an award-winning physics student and future army aviator, wouldn't make it into your merit-based system.
 
chop2chip said:
Thethe

Not sure what’s compelling you to carry Trump’s water on this one. Even he is trying to walk back the comment.

Let’s say we take him at his word that he was referring to the country and not it’s people. The implication here is that merit is based on the quality of your country and not on the quality of the individual. And this ignores the fact that the US and other prosperous nations should be the leaders in helping displaced peoples.
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Becuase closing your eyes and letting people into America from nations that have terrible murder/crime rates and poverty levels is a stupid decision. That is what Trump is saying. However, if we instituted a merit based system then all people of the world are on the same footing. If you have skills and the ability to support your self then come right in.
 
thethe said:
Do I have to post stories about immigrants that kill people as well? Does this one story change what makes sense for a nation as a whole?
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What it sounds like is you would round up everyone that has ever committed a crime or is statistically more likely to commit a crime and deport them to either a country that is predominantly Islamic or poor.

Maybe if you reconsider how you approach immigration in these terms. Since the Braves can’t sign anyone internationally for a few years, it would be best for them if we had mass immigration from Latin America so the Braves could actually sign them.
 
thethe said:
Becuase closing your eyes and letting people into America from nations that have terrible murder/crime rates and poverty levels is a stupid decision. That is what Trump is saying. However, if we instituted a merit based system then all people of the world are on the same footing. If you have skills and the ability to support your self then come right in.
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I can’t understand a worldview that doesn’t include at least a sliver of humanity. Maybe it makes a slightly less safe and slightly less prosperous, but it definitely makes thousands / millions significantly more safe and significantly more prosperous.
 
chop2chip said:
What it sounds like is you would round up everyone that has ever committed a crime or is statistically more likely to commit a crime and deport them to either a country that is predominantly Islamic or poor.

Maybe if you reconsider how you approach immigration in these terms. Since the Braves can’t sign anyone internationally for a few years, it would be best for them if we had mass immigration from Latin America so the Braves could actually sign them.
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I would absolutely deport anyone who has committed a crime (not a violation like a speeding ticket) back to their home country if they are not a legal citizen.
 
chop2chip said:
I can’t understand a worldview that doesn’t include at least a sliver of humanity. Maybe it makes a slightly less safe and slightly less prosperous, but it definitely makes thousands / millions significantly more safe and significantly more prosperous.
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Because America has enough poor people that need attention. Can we fix our own house first before we fix the world?
 
“Skal Labissiere was trapped in rubble w/ his brother+mom after a 7.0 earthquake in his native Haiti brought his house down. He couldn't walk for 2 months.

Eventually he got back on his feet, moved to America, learned English, and worked himself into the NBA.

No further comment.“
 
thethe said:
Because America has enough poor people that need attention. Can we fix our own house first before we fix the world?
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Mother ****ing cop out.

Why can’t we fix both? This isn’t like we are fixing a broken sink so we need to turn the water off. Let’s just tell people after the next massive earthquake that decimates the country that we will get around to helping them after we solve systemic racism and generational poverty.
 
chop2chip said:
Mother ****ing cop out.

Why can’t we fix both? This isn’t like we are fixing a broken sink so we need to turn the water off. Let’s just tell people after the next massive earthquake that decimates the country that we will get around to helping them after we solve systemic racism and generational poverty.
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There is a limit to what America can do. We are now getting our financial house in order and after that we can determine how to best help the world. But it is not a cop out. Homelessness is a big problem in major cities. The minority American population hasn't seen real wage growth in decades. I would rather care about Americans first.
 
chop2chip said:
“Skal Labissiere was trapped in rubble w/ his brother+mom after a 7.0 earthquake in his native Haiti brought his house down. He couldn't walk for 2 months.

Eventually he got back on his feet, moved to America, learned English, and worked himself into the NBA.

No further comment.“
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These outlier stories are great but for every one of these I can post something about MS-13 gutting people on Long Island.
 
thethe said:
There is a limit to what America can do. We are now getting our financial house in order and after that we can determine how to best help the world. But it is not a cop out. Homelessness is a big problem in major cities. The minority American population hasn't seen real wage growth in decades. I would rather care about Americans first.
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We have 22 million people employed by government and resources so enormous that our government could colonize the moon if they wanted to.

I put absolutely zero stock in your notion that we can only solve one social problem at a time as if the White House is the Eye of Sauron.
 
thethe said:
These outlier stories are great but for every one of these I can post something about MS-13 gutting people on Long Island.
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And for every story you share about MS-13 I can share one of Joe Middle Class coming home from work and shooting his wife.

A life lost in Haiti is no different than a life lost in the US. Somethings transcend arbitrary human defined borders - human life is one of those.

If a Haitian dies during a hurricane in a foreign country, does he make a sound?
 
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