I would agree. I don't think you can pencil in Pillar as Pache's floor. That's pretty absurd even if the defense is legit. There have been better skilled hitters who haven't come close to even what Pillar has done with the bat.
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I would agree. I don't think you can pencil in Pillar as Pache's floor. That's pretty absurd even if the defense is legit. There have been better skilled hitters who haven't come close to even what Pillar has done with the bat.
Southcack77
Well-known member
Let's not get too excited. He's been one of the worst regulars in baseball according to wRC+.
Granted, being a regular is quite an accomplishment in itself. Many guys with great defensive profiles never manage it. Which is why saying Pache's "floor" is starting CF in the majors is not a very reasonable thing to say at this point. But perhaps its not that far fetched.
Kevin Pillar is not a "starting CF in the majors". Kevin Pillar has posted 9.5 fWAR over his 3 full MLB seasons, and 10.2 overall...all at pre-arb salaries totaling about $1.6M.
If Pache posts 10+ fWAR before he hits arbitration, we should all be very pleased.
Setting that level of production as a prospect's floor is...silly.
Who's excited? I think Pache has a really good chance to replace Ender in a few years and still provide A+ defense. That on the cheap is very valuable. Can he hit enough to be able to make use of his defense? As you said many plus defenders never get a chance to show it because they can't hit a lick. Even as one of the worst 'hitters' in baseball he still hits enough to be a valuable player because of his defense much like Simmons does.
I think the point is penciling in that kind of hitting ability for Pache at this point is pretty silly. Better skilled hitters have completely busted at the plate in the majors. His defense does give him a leg up though in that he likely doesn't have to hit much to be an everyday player.
Yeah, I'd say it's extremely possible Pache could put up like a ~60-70 wRC+ if his bat never really develops. Where would that put Pillar's WAR?
But as to the question, if you knew a player was guaranteed to be Pillar, where would you rank him? Enscheff said top-25, but I'd think that player might be top-10?
But as to the question, if you knew a player was guaranteed to be Pillar, where would you rank him? Enscheff said top-25, but I'd think that player might be top-10?
Southcack77
Well-known member
I agree.
But Pache's defensive floor might well be every bit as good as Pillar's which (along with base running) has tended to be the largest part of his WAR.
But like I said and others have implied/said/meant, even being one of the worst hitting regulars in MLB is a difficult thing to accomplish. It's presuming a lot to put that kind of floor on him.
Top 10 might be more accurate than Top 25, honestly.
10 pre-arb wins as a floor means, what? 12 pre-arb wins is a "good" outcome? 15 pre-arb wins is his ceiling?
That's probably Top 10 for sure.
Southcack77
Well-known member
we are on the same page.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
Pache will be called up in 2019 and we will trade Ender and just play Pache and Acuna in the OF and five infielders. That is how good he is.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Finally, a reasonable take.
MadduxFanII
Swallowed by Mark Bowman
I'm insulted by the insinuation that Acuna won't be able to handle all three outfield spots himself.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
He can. But where are you putting 6 infielders. That is just dumb man.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
God I need baseball. This slow offseason is killing me
striker42
Well-known member
At least two players will be needed to restrain Blooper when he goes on a rampage so it all evens out.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
Feels like it's still forever away. We still have to get through the worst month of the year, imo, before we really start getting into baseball season.
I believe that Pache has gotten to bad wrap as being a slap hitter. At 18 years old in Rome he hit 20% line drives. Obviously the power isn't showing up yet but its always the last tool to develop. He has a frame where you would expect power to progress. Again - at 18 he did not embarrass himself at Rome. Thats not a ringing endorsement obviously but I don't see all this evidence that he is projecting to be a bad hitter.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Am I the only one that read this and thought [MENTION=7]thethe[/MENTION] posted it?
And yes, I'm excited. Lots of potentially high impact players are progressing nicely through the farm.
Tapate50
Well-known member
I am, an exciting CF prospect is good for the soul IMO.
I think he ends up fine. You don't have to hit much yet he's shown some decent numbers so far at a young age (a factor I weigh pretty heavily). Many seem to indicate he is starting to fill out and should have room to add more pop.
The point isn't whether Pache is projected to be a bad hitter or not. It's that it's crazy to say his absolute floor is a below average major league hitter. That's not his floor. His floor is going full on Andy Marte or any other prospect that completely busts at the plate.
lol. Actually if you want a true thethe post then look at Kiley's chat yesterday from Fangraphs. His Pache comments are 100% thethe
But it's hard not to like supposed A+ defenders at premium positions. The hitting barrier for them is so low to actually make an impact at the big league level.