Gun Violence

Tyler Jones
‏ @TylerMJones
12m12 minutes ago

Republicans in Congress care more about not upsetting the NRA

and getting re-elected than they do preventing mass shootings in the country.

That’s not hyperbole, it’s straight up fact.

This isn’t ab 2nd amendment ideology,

it’s about not attracting a primary opponent. Period.
 
What's your take on 3d printed guns? Doesn't really help.to ban guns if people can make them at home. Might not be easily accessible now but it will gain in popularity.
 
cajunrevenge said:
What's your take on 3d printed guns? Doesn't really help.to ban guns if people can make them at home. Might not be easily accessible now but it will gain in popularity.
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Yup. It's easy to make unregistered (not that it really matters) handguns these days.
 
I would like to see someone take a Moneyball approach to this. Get some hard stats. Identify every instance of gun violence, then break it down by age, gender, race, education level, number of parents, type of household, religion, income level, employment status, warning signs, criminal history, and anything else that smart people can come up with, then use that information to diagnose the problem and start considering solutions.

What troubles me is that the federal government does this type of analysis in lots of other areas, so I suspect they are actively choosing not to do it here.
 
Jaw said:
I would like to see someone take a Moneyball approach to this. Get some hard stats. Identify every instance of gun violence, then break it down by age, gender, race, education level, number of parents, type of household, religion, income level, employment status, warning signs, criminal history, and anything else that smart people can come up with, then use that information to diagnose the problem and start considering solutions.

What troubles me is that the federal government does this type of analysis in lots of other areas, so I suspect they are actively choosing not to do it here.
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Yes, that's quite odd indeed. It's almost as if there is a well-organized and massively funded effort from an industry lobby whose specific interest is precisely to avoid such deep study and data-crunching.

That's a flippant answer, but you are asking the right question. It's the best place to start. There was a great article in the Times a few years ago (I've referenced it a couple of times) which illustrates the issue all the way down to the local level, where county coroners and MEs have broad discretion and wildly varying standards for how to classify gun deaths...short form being that there's no way to even know with much confidence how many accidental shootings occur nationwide.

Bottom line, any honest effort to address the issue begins with an honest effort to understand the landscape.
 
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https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/fully-loaded-ten-biggest-gun-manufacturers-america/
 
Julio3000 said:
Yes, that's quite odd indeed. It's almost as if there is a well-organized and massively funded effort from an industry lobby whose specific interest is precisely to avoid such deep study and data-crunching.

That's a flippant answer, but you are asking the right question. It's the best place to start. There was a great article in the Times a few years ago (I've referenced it a couple of times) which illustrates the issue all the way down to the local level, where county coroners and MEs have broad discretion and wildly varying standards for how to classify gun deaths...short form being that there's no way to even know with much confidence how many accidental shootings occur nationwide.

Bottom line, any honest effort to address the issue begins with an honest effort to understand the landscape.
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I thought about that, but I really don't see how that would be in the NRA's interests. Right now the argument against them is "guns are bad." Why wouldn't they want that argument to change to (for example) unemployed white males, between the ages of 15 and 32, from a divorced, low income home, should not have access to high capacity weapons? That would seem to favor the gun lobby by not putting as much of their clientele at risk. I suspect that you are right about this not happening due to political reasons, I just don't think we have hit on the correct political group yet.
 
One idea I like that kills two birds with one stone is I would like to have a cop or former cop as a teacher in atleast high schools to teach kids basic law and how to deal with police. Those cops could be armed. Nothing about making schools an easy target makes the kids safer. Somewhere out there I just know theres a government bureaucrat blaming this on not having enough "no gun zone" signs.
 
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Jaw said:
I thought about that, but I really don't see how that would be in the NRA's interests. Right now the argument against them is "guns are bad." Why wouldn't they want that argument to change to (for example) unemployed white males, between the ages of 15 and 32, from a divorced, low income home, should not have access to high capacity weapons? That would seem to favor the gun lobby by not putting as much of their clientele at risk. I suspect that you are right about this not happening due to political reasons, I just don't think we have hit on the correct political group yet.
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They specifically, and successfully, lobbied Congress to pass legislation effectively preventing it.
 
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Hawk said:
This thread is reserved for butt****ing the NRA hobbyhorse.
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Jaw posed a worthwhile question about federal study of gun violence. Turns out there's quite relevant information on the topic. Congressional Rs and the NRA are central to that discussion. Sorry that doesn't fit your weird procrustean standards here.

I mean, I agree with you about the broader issue of school shootings being about more than guns. And I agree that the glorification of violence in entertainment and media play some kind of role, though one that's hard to quantify, and maybe less so than other factors. I'd further add that any honest discussion on that score would have to include our collective national glorification of war and fetishization of the military. I'm amenable to any broader discussion here--in the other thread I was soliciting opinions and ideas about non-gun-related ways to mitigate such incidents. For you to take a very germane and rather rhetorically modest point about the NRA and boil it down to that is disrespectful to the conversation and pretty lame, besides.

It's fair to say that the specific issue of mass shootings is "not just about guns." It's not. But the dilemma of American gun violence is intertwined with our dysfunctional gun culture. It isn't just about guns, but it is about guns. The NRA is a knee-jerk boogeyman, but they're also a legitimate bad actor here, and should be subject to criticism where it's due. They effectively control the discourse on the gun issue in one party. You seem to think it's small-minded to point this out.
 
Jaw said:
I would like to see someone take a Moneyball approach to this. Get some hard stats. Identify every instance of gun violence, then break it down by age, gender, race, education level, number of parents, type of household, religion, income level, employment status, warning signs, criminal history, and anything else that smart people can come up with, then use that information to diagnose the problem and start considering solutions.

What troubles me is that the federal government does this type of analysis in lots of other areas, so I suspect they are actively choosing not to do it here.
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i am seriously down to ban gun ownership with harsh as **** penalties for those that get caught with one if they are men who are domestic abusers

there is a clear pattern there

and **** those pieces of **** anyway

past that, i'm always down for more intel

and it wouldn't be hard to pull that together since we have a long list of mass killings and gun deaths in this country cause we literately don't do anything to try to stop it and we all live everyday with a real life game of craps in hoping that today isn't the day we find ourselves in the wrong place at the wrong time and get shot
 
It would seem to me that a good and relatively non-partisan start would be stricter (as long as they were well written, clear, and reasonable) background checks for anyone buying a firearm or any kind?
 
cajunrevenge said:
One idea I like that kills two birds with one stone is I would like to have a cop or former cop as a teacher in atleast high schools to teach kids basic law and how to deal with police. Those cops could be armed. Nothing about making schools an easy target makes the kids safer. Somewhere out there I just know theres a government bureaucrat blaming this on not having enough "no gun zone" signs.
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I like this idea.
 
Oklahomahawk said:
It would seem to me that a good and relatively non-partisan start would be stricter (as long as they were well written, clear, and reasonable) background checks for anyone buying a firearm or any kind?
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Buying a gun in Japan is like a 6 month long process for new gun owners and consumers are required to take the gun safety course to even purchase the weapon. That seems like a good place to start, imo.
 
cajunrevenge said:
One idea I like that kills two birds with one stone is I would like to have a cop or former cop as a teacher in atleast high schools to teach kids basic law and how to deal with police. Those cops could be armed. Nothing about making schools an easy target makes the kids safer. Somewhere out there I just know theres a government bureaucrat blaming this on not having enough "no gun zone" signs.
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Carp said:
I like this idea.
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This is probably my favorite suggestion as far as a deterrent for these shootings.

I really like the idea of a cop teaching law and how to interact with police also, regardless of being armed or the shootings. It could humanize both parties to each other.
 
You know I never hear about a school shooter being a stoner. Some marijuana might have been able to help some of these kids.
 
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