Gun Violence

Julio3000 said:
Amazing that you think it's impossible, given that it is in practice, successfully, in many places in the world. Certainly, America's cultural and political climate are different, but your arguments here are facile.
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So we haven't been unable to stop drug smuggling from other countries, but we would be able to easily do so with ammo?
 
Julio3000 said:
Speaking purely hypothetically here, but it would be possible--in a world where such a ban were politically feasible--to take aggressive action to curtail that existing supply.
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YAY! Confiscation police! Love me that government.
 
Julio3000 said:
I'm not a gun person; far from it, as I'm sure you can infer. I grew up in a household where I wasn't even allowed to have a toy gun. My personal feeling has always been that a gun in my household would be more likely to harm someone in the household then it would be to protect them. I'm quite comfortable with that calculus, but I recognize that other people make different choices. My in-laws, for example, are gun folks, albeit hyper-safety conscious. My brother, who grew up in the same household, is a gun owner and hell of a marksman who's carried ARs and a variety of handguns in a professional capacity.

I guess what I'm saying is that the tribe is not altogether foreign to me, but it still kind of blows my mind that people are making purchasing decisions about relatively easily available consumer goods on the basis of how efficacious they are at killing or maiming other human beings. I just can't get my head around that.

I'm not picking on you, Jaw, but you've written a lot, and eloquently, about how you feel that our culture is debased and broken...that's how I feel about our national gun culture. To me, it's a sickness, a product of artificial fear, and a misdirected power fantasy.

I'm not icked out by my in-laws hunting deer and wild pigs on their property. Hell, I eat the stuff they kill and am thankful for it. But I am profoundly disturbed by the robust marketing of and lobbying for tools that are intended to kill or maim other human beings.
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I suspected you had experience with "good" gun culture, because you've never shared the contempt for it that so many do. It's really a shame the type of culture you are familiar with isn't what everyone else associates with guns. It is still the majority case but the crazies have ruined everyone's perception.

It can really be a wonderful thing that involves an acknowledgement of a child maturing, an assumption of responsibility and understanding of consequences, a sense of self reliance, and a right of passage shared between generations.

It's like everything in this world, those who are irresponsible or evil can turn it bad. Opioids should be a good thing but some doctors and addicts ruin it. The internet is the greatest tool mankind has ever created, and some people use it to steal, others get addicted to porn. I'll even side with Cajun and say that we should be able to use weed as a force for good. The only problem is people. There are hundreds of thousands of responsible gun owners for every one that uses it for evil but that doesn't provide comfort when we see kids gunned down.

I don't know what the solutions for any of these things are, but I do feel like it has really only become a problem since internet went mainstream, and most of these kids seem to be the outcast types. Is our culture just so bad at being kind to people that this happens?
 
sturg33 said:
So we haven't been unable to stop drug smuggling from other countries, but we would be able to easily do so with ammo?
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So if zero illegal guns or ammunition is not a feasible goal, any attempt at palliative legal remedies is rendered fruitless? Your logic escapes me.

There are questions of scale, cost, and the dynamics of addiction that undercut your premise, IMO.
 
I grew up in a hunting culture and owned guns before I could legally drive, but I can't see any reason why regular citizens can so easily buy and own semi-automatic and automatic weapons. I also don't think the gun owning population is big enough for the majority to have to cowtow to it.

Follow the money. The NRA is arming criminals, fanatics and lunatics and doesn't care about the innocent deaths. Let's talk about actual carnage.
 
Cowards. The Conservative Political Action Conference embraces the National Rifle Association as a sponsor, and in 2018, as in every recent year, the NRA’s Wayne LaPierre will speak at CPAC.

The details of LaPierre’s appearance were kept off the published schedule as a precaution, sources told the Washington Examiner, amid outrage among anti-gun protesters in the aftermath of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. Sources said they do not yet know how or whether they plan to announce the timing of LaPierre’s speech in advance.
 
Runnin said:
I grew up in a hunting culture and owned guns before I could legally drive, but I can't see any reason why regular citizens can so easily buy and own semi-automatic and automatic weapons. I also don't think the gun owning population is big enough for the majority to have to cowtow to it.

Follow the money. The NRA is arming criminals, fanatics and lunatics and doesn't care about the innocent deaths. Let's talk about actual carnage.
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Care to talk about the real leading causes of death and how we should fix those or are we fixated on guns? Mind you Not fixated on the actual people that pull the triggers just the objects that were used. Tim McViegh didn’t use a gun. The 9/11 high jackers didn’t use guns. I never heard anyone try to ban or even blame the fertilizer or box cutters after those horrendous moments but you want to blame the guns in this scenario? Why not blame the person
 
Krgrecw said:
Care to talk about the real leading causes of death and how we should fix those or are we fixated on guns? Mind you Not fixated on the actual people that pull the triggers just the objects that were used. Tim McViegh didn’t use a gun. The 9/11 high jackers didn’t use guns. I never heard anyone try to ban or even blame the fertilizer or box cutters after those horrendous moments but you want to blame the guns in this scenario? Why not blame the person
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What about the person?

Are you making the argument that society should do more to maintain cohesion?
Why do think our so called "Christian" culture is so fragmented?
What is lacking in the indoctrination of the citizenry?

I know you aren't arguing for more social fabric binding programs from the nanny state, but it's pretty clear that society has been allowed to become too segregated. Perhaps too much energy is focused on the profit motive and not enough on the basic well-being of the people.
 
Krgrecw said:
Care to talk about the real leading causes of death and how we should fix those or are we fixated on guns? Mind you Not fixated on the actual people that pull the triggers just the objects that were used. Tim McViegh didn’t use a gun. The 9/11 high jackers didn’t use guns. I never heard anyone try to ban or even blame the fertilizer or box cutters after those horrendous moments but you want to blame the guns in this scenario? Why not blame the person
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After OKC, the ATF started a voluntary program with the goal of reporting suspicious purchases of ammonium nitrate. Fertilizer manufactures took steps to reformulate the product to make it less volatile. In the following years, legislation was enacted track and otherwise regulate purchases above a certain amount. DHS has long supported stricter regulation, and legislation to that effect has been proposed.

Remember, we're talking about products (AN fertilizer and commercial airlines) with widespread legitimate use that are capable of deadly misuse, as opposed to a product which is working exactly as intended when it is used to kill and maim human beings.
 
Runnin said:
As weapons become better and more high tech serious regulation will become necessary. How long before these weapons are all but obsolete anyway?
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Weapons will never be obsolete. They will evolve. And every citizen should want to have a gun. Protection of oneself and family should always be a personal responsibility and never assumed to be handled b anyone else.
 
only the brilliant minds that bring abortion to every debate could think bringing a convicted killer of a child would be a good plan
 
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