Discussion of Braves 2018 Offseason plans

[Enscheff]

It always amazed me when people shrugged off the early promotion as "just $10M - not a big deal"... not realizing that cash-strapped teams like us need every nickel we can get.

That Markakis contract is still biting us

It’s not a big deal to sign Markakis. It’s not a big deal to call Swanson up early. It’s not a big deal to call Albies up early.

It IS a big deal to make suboptimal moves like that EVERY time they were given the chance. Quite literally every time they had to choose between making an optimal move or a suboptimal move, they made the incorrect choice.

Every. Single. Time.

Then we had to come here and read the pozzies on these forums defend every single one of those suboptimal moves because “those guys get paid to do this and know more than you do”.

Except they didn’t know anything.

 

[Super]

Albies was going to be the starter this year anyway. Calling him up last year didn't do anything.

 

[clvclv]

If AA really wanted Moustakas he could simply have kept Kemp instead of taking on $47 million of the Dodgers' "dead money" to get Kemp off the books for 2019.

Acting like the call-ups kept them from "getting a bargain on Moustakas" is comedic - it's just not the play the blackjack dealer would have made. Of course, no one's "smart enough" to make those moves.

 

[zitothebrave]

It’s not a big deal to sign Markakis. It’s not a big deal to call Swanson up early. It’s not a big deal to call Albies up early.

It IS a big deal to make suboptimal moves like that EVERY time they were given the chance. Quite literally every time they had to choose between making an optimal move or a suboptimal move, they made the incorrect choice.

Every. Single. Time.

Then we had to come here and read the pozzies on these forums defend every single one of those suboptimal moves because “those guys get paid to do this and know more than you do”.

Except they didn’t know anything.

I don't get the Albies call-up last year even in the slightest. And dittor for the Swanson call-up the year before. Assuming the MLB rules haven't changed that much players called up in September don't have their service time effected. So all he would have to do is stay under the PA threshold and we have another year of service time. Instead we called up our then top prospect to play games in garbage time I guess to see what they have. But it's garbage time, it's not even a third of a season sometimes. Why waste a whole year of control for 150 PA? It's why I had to stop following the Braves as intently as I did in the past. Under the "leadership" of Hart/JS/Coppy we made stupid move after stupid move. Promoting Heyward and Freeman at the start of their seasons was a dumb move from a financial point, BUT the catch is you're hoping that they'll show you some good faith in return, and in the case of Freeman he certainly did. But the dumb move from a financial point was countered by the baseball side of it. 2010 and 2011 we were playoff teams. Well playoff contenders. In 2010 we barely made the Wild Card and in 2011 we just missed it. We would have been much worse without Jason and Freddie for a few weeks. So I can understand that argument. It's not one I would have agreed with. I would have rather have taken 18 games or whatever of lesser production for another year of control, but that's me. But I get that.

Wasting a player for 2 months or less is beyond stupid. And that's the kind of **** we kept doing. Wasting money on players who are over the hill and weren't worth it (Markakis/Aybar/so forth) making bad trades (Olivera 2 times and Simmons) not making trades at the right time (Julio)

To end my rant on a happier note. THe old BRaves system seemingly was on August first management went to their top prospect like this

 

[zitothebrave]

Albies was going to be the starter this year anyway. Calling him up last year didn't do anything.

Except start his arby clock quicker. I also don't recall if it ****s up his FA clock. But I know he could have been under team control longer if we waited to call him up for like 3 weeks into the season or something short like that.

 

[Super]

Except start his arby clock quicker. I also don't recall if it ****s up his FA clock. But I know he could have been under team control longer if we waited to call him up for like 3 weeks into the season or something short like that.

He got called up earlier than I thought. But he wasn't going to stay down to start this season. I mean why not just keep he and Acuna down all year? the next two while we're at it?

 

[Super]

the markakis contract hurts a little right now, but still isn't nearly as bad as some others we've had the last 5-10 years. at least he's not, you know, one of the worst players in the league.

 

[thewupk]

It always amazed me when people shrugged off the early promotion as "just $10M - not a big deal"... not realizing that cash-strapped teams like us need every nickel we can get.

That Markakis contract is still biting us

And it was precisely that 4th year that people largely complained about. Just made no sense whatsoever.

 

[thewupk]

If AA really wanted Moustakas he could simply have kept Kemp instead of taking on $47 million of the Dodgers' "dead money" to get Kemp off the books for 2019.

Acting like the call-ups kept them from "getting a bargain on Moustakas" is comedic - it's just not the play the blackjack dealer would have made. Of course, no one's "smart enough" to make those moves.

That certainly could have happened. However I don't think many expected the market to crash for certain people, AA included.

 

[Super]

That certainly could have happened. However I don't think many expected the market to crash for certain people, AA included.

Yeah, i'm not sure anyone saw this coming.
LA probably doesn't take on kemp if they knew this. they were going to try and dump him off again, but couldn't. we're lucky that deal happened early enough.

 

[thewupk]

He got called up earlier than I thought. But he wasn't going to stay down to start this season. I mean why not just keep he and Acuna down all year? the next two while we're at it?

I'm not too concerned with Albies being called up when he did. In a perfect world where they showed they were ready I would have called up Swanson a couple of weeks into 2017, Albies at the end of the year at the earliest, and then Acuna two weeks into 2018. That would of put Swanson and Albies on the same FA track but with Swanson hitting arbitration a year earlier. As it stands it may not even matter if Swanson struggles still and has to spend time in AAA again or becomes a non asset to where it doesn't matter.

My main issue with the Albies promotion, and it's a selfish one, it removes him from the chance of winning the ROY this season. I feel young guys deserve the chance to go after that award with a good performance.

 

[salmagundy]

thewupk said --- My main issue with the Albies promotion, and it's a selfish one, it removes him from the chance of winning the ROY this season. I feel young guys deserve the chance to go after that award with a good performance.

Acuna could be the ROY this year. Which would you prefer??

 

[bravesfanMatt]

thewupk said --- My main issue with the Albies promotion, and it's a selfish one, it removes him from the chance of winning the ROY this season. I feel young guys deserve the chance to go after that award with a good performance.

Acuna could be the ROY this year. Which would you prefer??

A 1-2 finish.

 

[thewupk]

thewupk said --- My main issue with the Albies promotion, and it's a selfish one, it removes him from the chance of winning the ROY this season. I feel young guys deserve the chance to go after that award with a good performance.

Acuna could be the ROY this year. Which would you prefer??

I'd prefer both guys to have the opportunity but in the end it doesn't really matter.

I think in 2018 Acuna has a better chance to put up number that would garner ROY votes while Albies has a higher WAR due to his defense.

 

[Enscheff]

Albies was going to be the starter this year anyway. Calling him up last year didn't do anything.

The Braves are not in contention for anything this year. There is absolutely no reason he needs to be on the 25 man roster opening day. The correct move would have been to delay Albies' clock by 2 weeks this season.

Really, it's OK for guys to percolate in AAA a bit. They don't have to be rushed to the majors just to create some silly buzz around the team.

 

[Enscheff]

He got called up earlier than I thought. But he wasn't going to stay down to start this season. I mean why not just keep he and Acuna down all year? the next two while we're at it?

Aaaand the slippery slope argument. A favorite of those who don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Enscheff]

If AA really wanted Moustakas he could simply have kept Kemp instead of taking on $47 million of the Dodgers' "dead money" to get Kemp off the books for 2019.

Acting like the call-ups kept them from "getting a bargain on Moustakas" is comedic - it's just not the play the blackjack dealer would have made. Of course, no one's "smart enough" to make those moves.

Another clear demonstration you are completely clueless.

Calling up Swanson and Albies early will hamper the team in 5-6 years just like the Markakis contract is hampering the team now.

 

[Super]

Aaaand the slippery slope argument. A favorite of those who don;'t know what they're talking about.

yes me having a different opinion than you means i don't know what i'm talking about. it's also fine to call guys up when they earned it. but really, if we're not going to compete, why not just keep them down all year? basically no FOs think like you - not even the apparent geniuses at the white sox.

 

[Enscheff]

yes me having a different opinion than you means i don't know what i'm talking about. it's also fine to call guys up when they earned it. but really, if we're not going to compete, why not just keep them down all year? basically no FOs think like you - not even the apparent geniuses at the white sox.

Again, one of those moves is fine. Making sub-optimal moves at every chance is not fine. That's what the Braves did.

Go look at Kris Bryant's service time. Then go look at what the Dodgers did with Bellinger. Look up what they are doing with Verdugo and Buehler. Take a peak at how the Astros are handling Tucker. Get back to me about how the smart teams treat their premium assets.

I'll wait...

 

[Super]

Again, one of those moves is fine. Making sub-optimal moves at every chance is not fine. That's what the Braves did.

Go look at Kris Bryant's service time. Get back to me about how the smart teams treat their premium assets.

I'll wait...

every team makes "sub-optimal" moves like all the time...your only regard is for service time. pretty much every team has recently demonstrated that other things matter to them.

swanson was a mistake. albies was fine.