Acuna- what are everyone's thoughts on when

[Southcack77]

I agree there's no reason to rush, but you're not really rushing a guy who's pretty obviously ready. I agree with the comments above -- three or four AAA games don't really matter.

In my opinion, there is plenty of reason to doubt whether he is ready or not. He rushed through several levels in a hot summer never staying long enough for any book to develop on him or to face many pitchers even a second time. Other than injury, he's never faced adversity or had to make an adjustment.

There is a segment on here who still blames Andruw Jones not being Willie Mays on being rushed and some people clamoring for Acuna to come up are definitively in that camp.

This is not a World Series year for Atlanta and probably not a wild card year without some huge luck and there is no real need to have him up other than for wish fulfillment for fans who just want to see their shiny toy.

I'm content to at least allow for him to stop striking out and show some life at AAA. I'd be fine if they left him down for half the year, honestly, to let him face the big arms and crafty veterans and scouting reports. But I don't expect that.

 

[smootness]

I'm content to at least allow for him to stop striking out and show some life at AAA. I'd be fine if they left him down for half the year, honestly, to let him face the big arms and crafty veterans and scouting reports. But I don't expect that.

But why? That's just a fan being worried that somehow 'rushing' him will break him. The reality is, he has no open holes in his game he needs to continue working on. Sure, he'll need to get used to MLB pitching. But that's only going to happen in MLB.

I'm not a person who thinks a player has to go through some extended slump or adversity before they're 'ready'. I think a player should be held down if they still have pretty obvious holes that MLB pitching will clearly exploit. You can certainly make a case that Dansby had that, and it began showing up in AA.

Acuna doesn't have anything like that. I'm sorry, but 50+ games is plenty enough to have a slump or to have holes show up. If you're good enough that at 19 years old, you can go 50+ games at both AA and AAA and not have any holes show up, then you're ready for MLB.

 

[Southcack77]

No one has ever argued Albies was rushed. Even still, in 97 AAA games last year, he OPS'd .771.
In 84 AA games in 2016, Dansby OPS'd .745 and only played in 11 AAA games before coming up.

Acuna, meanwhile, OPS'd .895 in 57 AA games last year, and even with the 5 games so far this year, he has still OPS'd .893 in 59 AAA games.

And yes, then in addition to that, he blitzed the AFL and ST. Lulz at the thought of him being rushed or not ready.

The Braves front office moves suggested Albies was rushed when they demoted him from AAA the first time. He got nearly 700 AAA ABs in the end and forced the issue by raking. Some people still say he should have been left down until 2018 service time line passed.

Acuna got a 100 ABs in A+, 200 AB in AA, and 200 AB in AAA. Last year. While some are saying how amazing it is that he moved so quickly, the response of AA is more "why would you do that?"

The Arizona Fall League and Spring Training get hype, but that's about it.

Pretending that scuffling in AAA doesn't mean anything because he was good in AFL and Spring Training is just picking and choosing which small samples to accept. Which happens here a whole hell of a lot.

There is no urgency.

He may very well be up at the earliest opportunity. If that's the way it goes, so be it. But it won't bother me if he stays down for awhile.

 

[smootness]

The Braves front office moves suggested Albies was rushed when they demoted him from AAA the first time. He got nearly 700 AAA ABs in the end and forced the issue by raking. Some people still say he should have been left down until 2018 service time line passed.

Acuna got a 100 ABs in A+, 200 AB in AA, and 200 AB in AAA. Last year. While some are saying how amazing it is that he moved so quickly, the response of AA is more "why would you do that?"

The Arizona Fall League and Spring Training get hype, but that's about it.

Pretending that scuffling in AAA doesn't mean anything because he was good in AFL and Spring Training is just picking and choosing which small samples to accept. Which happens here a whole hell of a lot.

There is no urgency.

He may very well be up at the earliest opportunity. If that's the way it goes, so be it. But it won't bother me if he stays down for awhile.

Albies got that many AAA AB's because he was struggling. They didn't leave him down to make sure he had time to struggle before promoting him.

Acuna did not struggle in AAA. At all.

And LOL at the thought that the 23-game sample in the AFL is equivalent to the 5-game sample in AAA so far this year.

The decision to promote Acuna at the earliest opportunity was made before the season started, and nothing he could do before that point will or should change that. He proved he was ready before this year ever started.

 

[nsacpi]

The Braves front office moves suggested Albies was rushed when they demoted him from AAA the first time. He got nearly 700 AAA ABs in the end and forced the issue by raking. Some people still say he should have been left down until 2018 service time line passed.

Acuna got a 100 ABs in A+, 200 AB in AA, and 200 AB in AAA. Last year. While some are saying how amazing it is that he moved so quickly, the response of AA is more "why would you do that?"

The Arizona Fall League and Spring Training get hype, but that's about it.

Pretending that scuffling in AAA doesn't mean anything because he was good in AFL and Spring Training is just picking and choosing which small samples to accept. Which happens here a whole hell of a lot.

There is no urgency.

He may very well be up at the earliest opportunity. If that's the way it goes, so be it. But it won't bother me if he stays down for awhile.

I think AA's point is well taken. A more rational path would have had him split last year in high A and AA. And then half a season in AAA this year. But the previous management did not take that path. Combine that with Acuna's spring training performance and the need for a left fielder, I think we should call him up for the Phillies series. If he is struggling after a couple months, send him back down. But I suspect he will do fine. I'm not concerned with his performance in AAA this year. It means nothing given the sample size.

 

[Southcack77]

But why? That's just a fan being worried that somehow 'rushing' him will break him. The reality is, he has no open holes in his game he needs to continue working on. Sure, he'll need to get used to MLB pitching. But that's only going to happen in MLB.

I'm not a person who thinks a player has to go through some extended slump or adversity before they're 'ready'. I think a player should be held down if they still have pretty obvious holes that MLB pitching will clearly exploit. You can certainly make a case that Dansby had that, and it began showing up in AA.

Acuna doesn't have anything like that. I'm sorry, but 50+ games is plenty enough to have a slump or to have holes show up. If you're good enough that at 19 years old, you can go 50+ games at both AA and AAA and not have any holes show up, then you're ready for MLB.

Swanson's promotion was so head scratching that the GM who was rushing prospects publicly distanced himself from the decision.

Nonetheless, Swanson hit .302/.361 in 38 major league games in 2016 after having been relatively mediocre in AA. Would another 12 games in the majors predicted his being perhaps the worst hitter in the NL in 2017? One with huge holes in his game?

As you can tell, I disagree with the idea that 50 games or 200 PA is enough to determine whether there might be problems.

Acuna has basically had one year of performing like an all star and that included rapid promotions that meant he did not face many pitchers a second time.

I just don't think its the worst thing in the world to leave him down at least until he warms up in AAA. And if they want to give him 300 ABs down there, I wouldn't think it was the worst idea. But that's probably not going to happen.

 

[Southcack77]

Albies got that many AAA AB's because he was struggling. They didn't leave him down to make sure he had time to struggle before promoting him.

Acuna did not struggle in AAA. At all.

And LOL at the thought that the 23-game sample in the AFL is equivalent to the 5-game sample in AAA so far this year.

The decision to promote Acuna at the earliest opportunity was made before the season started, and nothing he could do before that point will or should change that. He proved he was ready before this year ever started.

I don't know why you are acting like the Arizona Fall League is particularly important.

I'm not acting like a five game sample in AAA is a huge deal. I'm suggesting that perhaps letting Acuna take his time getting up isn't such a bad thing. More of a sample size might be a good thing to let him experience teams treating him like someone they've seen before who is acclaimed as the best player in baseball. That literally cannot hurt him.

I didn't realize you were privy to the Braves internal plans regarding Acuna. If that decision is already made according to you, then all of this is moot. I'll enjoy watching him then.

 

[Southcack77]

I think AA's point is well taken. A more rational path would have had him split last year in high A and AA. And then half a season in AAA this year. But the previous management did not take that path. Combine that with Acuna's spring training performance and the need for a left fielder, I think we should call him up for the Phillies series. If he is struggling after a couple months, send him back down. But I suspect he will do fine. I'm not concerned with his performance in AAA this year. It means nothing given the sample size.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to acknowledge that he was rushed and then shrug your shoulders and say fate demands you continue to rush him. If they are serious about questioning the handling they can still elect to slow it down.

I agree with most that he will be up soon though. It'll be cool. Unless he fails. Then the kid will have to go through the embarrassment and blow back that Dansby got. Which probably won't kill him. It happens to lots of players.

 

[clvclv]

But he's not being rushed. He's already proven he can handle AAA last year. A couple of games to start the year mean nothing. Only reason he didn't start with the team is due to service time. A couple of games of him not hitting with Tucker having a hot first week shouldn't change anything.

The same way Riley has already "proven he can handle AAA"?

Let's look at this from another angle - if Swanson started 2-19, everybody would be screaming about getting Camargo into the lineup wouldn't they?

The minute Acuna strings 3 games together, he should be in Atlanta's lineup the next day - until then there's no harm in letting him struggle a little and show he can overcome that in Gwinnett since it's certainly going to happen after he comes up as well. This has nothing to do with Tucker and/or how he's playing.

 

[msstate7]

The same way Riley has already "proven he can handle AAA"?

Let's look at this from another angle - if Swanson started 4-21, everybody would be screaming about getting Camargo into the lineup wouldn't they?

The minute Acuna strings 3 games together, he should be in Atlanta's lineup the next day - until then there's no harm in letting him struggle a little and show he can overcome that in Gwinnett since it's certainly going to happen after he comes up as well. This has nothing to do with Tucker and/or how he's playing.

Interesting comparison... riley's .900 ops is looked at as BABIP luck bc of his .393 in 203 PA. Acuna had an ops at AA of .894 in 243 PA with a babip of .396.

I'm not saying riley is as good as acuna; I don't believe that. I just think it odd everyone is just BABIP good, but acuna is immune to that criticism here. For the record, I think both of these players are gonna be great

 

[BeanieAntics]

Interesting comparison... riley's .900 ops is looked at as BABIP luck bc of his .393 in 203 PA. Acuna had an ops at AA of .894 in 243 PA with a babip of .396.

I'm not saying riley is as good as acuna; I don't believe that. I just think it odd everyone is just BABIP good, but acuna is immune to that criticism here. For the record, I think both of these players are gonna be great

I think I've read dozens of posts that have cited Acuna's BABIP luck as one of the reasons he won't come up to Atlanta and immediately be an .850 OPS guy. And I'm pretty sure that all of those posts were coming from guys like Scheff, wupk, and nscapi. The same guys who are saying we should call him up immediately.

 

[Enscheff]

It might be good to realize that in any other organization, Acuna likely doesn't even reach AAA last year. In any other organization, he would have started this year in AAA and nobody would have batted an eye.

Just because he succeeded in ~200 PAs at each level does not mean he wasn't rushed. He succeeded with a .400 BABIP, which, by the way, has done a complete turn around now that he is "scuffling" at .182.

I preached endlessly about what happens when Acuna's BABIP luck runs out, and now we are seeing it to the extreme. Folks argued endlessly that it didn't matter, and Acuna was somehow not subject to the laws of BABIP normalization. There is nothing wrong with Acuna compiling a few hundred PAs in AAA. He is still going to be great, and the Braves still won't be able to afford him.

 

[Enscheff]

I think I've read dozens of posts that have cited Acuna's BABIP luck as one of the reasons he won't come up to Atlanta and immediately be an .850 OPS guy. And I'm pretty sure that all of those posts were coming from guys like Scheff, wupk, and nscapi. The same guys who are saying we should call him up immediately.

I never said they should call him up immediately no matter what. I have said they shouldn't hold him down to give Tucker PAs.

I have also said Acuna should be given more benefit of the doubt than Tucker when he does come up.

 

[BeanieAntics]

I never said they should call him up immediately no matter what. I have said they shouldn't hold him down to give Tucker PAs.

I have also said Acuna should be given more benefit of the doubt than Tucker when he does come up.

Yeah I was just speaking sort of generally just to address the idea that people haven't cited Acuna's BABIP.

 

[thewupk]

The same way Riley has already "proven he can handle AAA"?

Let's look at this from another angle - if Swanson started 2-19, everybody would be screaming about getting Camargo into the lineup wouldn't they?

The minute Acuna strings 3 games together, he should be in Atlanta's lineup the next day - until then there's no harm in letting him struggle a little and show he can overcome that in Gwinnett since it's certainly going to happen after he comes up as well. This has nothing to do with Tucker and/or how he's playing.

Read what you are typing here. Acuna needs 3 good games to get into Atlanta's lineup? That's beyond dumb. He is either ready or he's not. 3 games tell you nothing.

 

[thewupk]

Interesting comparison... riley's .900 ops is looked at as BABIP luck bc of his .393 in 203 PA. Acuna had an ops at AA of .894 in 243 PA with a babip of .396.

I'm not saying riley is as good as acuna; I don't believe that. I just think it odd everyone is just BABIP good, but acuna is immune to that criticism here. For the record, I think both of these players are gonna be great

Acuna is not immune to any criticism. I don't think Acuna will have a 340 BABIP or higher like some do here based on what he's done in the minors. Also the knock of BABIP for Riley is that it suddenly made him a top prospect in baseball. I certainly don't agree with that while some do.

 

[clvclv]

Read what you are typing here. Acuna needs 3 good games to get into Atlanta's lineup? That's beyond dumb. He is either ready or he's not. 3 games tell you nothing.

He'd done absolutely nothing before Tuesday when he had a 2B and a BB, then followed that up with an 0-4 and 3 Ks.

Produce first, then play.

No one's calling him a "flop" here. They did the smart thing by sending him down to gain the extra year of control - don't screw it up by calling him back up when he's struggling and waste the extra season now.

 

[Enscheff]

Read what you are typing here. Acuna needs 3 good games to get into Atlanta's lineup? That's beyond dumb. He is either ready or he's not. 3 games tell you nothing.

LOL he literally said that a handful of PAs don't matter, and then followed it up by saying a handful of PAs should lead to a promotion.

clv gonna clv....derp

 

[thethe]

Acunas defense alone will provide value in LF. You guys are crazy for thinking that his performance so far in AAA this year will dictate anything. First day eligible for Super 2 is the day. The era of Albies/Acuna/Swanson is upon us.

 

[thewupk]

He'd done absolutely nothing before Tuesday when he had a 2B and a BB, then followed that up with an 0-4 and 3 Ks.

Produce first, then play.

No one's calling him a "flop" here. They did the smart thing by sending him down to gain the extra year of control - don't screw it up by calling him back up when he's struggling and waste the extra season now.

I didn't realize a few games of not hitting well is 'struggling'

I believe they told him when he's going to get called up. So take this as putting in your two week notice at work. Are you really going to be giving 100% when you know you are moving on in a matter or days?