When we bring up Camargo, acuna, and gohara

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msstate7 said:
Ryan flaherty career stats:
1318 PA
.221/.291/.358
foWAR = -31.5
fdWAR = 7.2
fWAR = 2.0

So you and southcack think RF is better than camargo? I disagree
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You must have read something that was deleted before I read their posts. I saw "not a game-changer" and the like - don't see that they said Flaherty was "better than Camargo".

Flaherty's playing pretty well right now and is on a hot stretch like Tucker - you just ride those out unless Camargo or Acuna's even hotter, then make the switch.
 
clvclv said:
You must have read something that was deleted before I read their posts. I saw "not a game-changer" and the like - don't see that they said Flaherty was "better than Camargo".

Flaherty's playing pretty well right now and is on a hot stretch like Tucker - you just ride those out unless Camargo or Acuna's even hotter, then make the switch.
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I just don't think RF will continue this hot hitting. Over the course of a full season, camargo will be the more productive player
 
msstate7 said:
I just don't think RF will continue this hot hitting. Over the course of a full season, camargo will be the more productive player
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I don't think anybody disagrees with that, but their posts didn't say that Camargo wouldn't be more productive in the long-run either.
 
msstate7 said:
Ryan flaherty career stats:
1318 PA
.221/.291/.358
foWAR = -31.5
fdWAR = 7.2
fWAR = 2.0

So you and southcack think RF is better than camargo? I disagree
Click to expand...


Right now Ryan Flaherty has a 153 wRC+. What I said was that it is unlikely that Camargo is going to provide something that Flaherty hasn't (as a Braves so far in a small sample).

the suggestion has been that his call-up was going to make the Braves even better and more explosive.

Whether he gets called up or not, the Braves production at 3B is heading downward from here.

I see Camargo as a somewhat marginal MLB starter with maybe a Prado ceiling. I wouldn't include him in a list of "and just wait till this guy comes up." But he might be better than Flaherty. Probably is.
 
I think I gotta go with thethe on this one. Young guys get better and typically have a year when the promise turns into who they really are. The trend the past two years with Camargo has turned upward pretty significantly. Some of you believe it is a hot streak and will shortly be followed by regression, while others think he has turned a corner and will be a better than average player going forward. I don't know which is the case, but I am an optimist, and sure look forward to finding out.

We know what Flaherty is. We don't yet know what Camargo is. Time to find out.
 
Southcack77 said:
Right now Ryan Flaherty has a 153 wRC+. What I said was that it is unlikely that Camargo is going to provide something that Flaherty hasn't (as a Braves so far in a small sample).

the suggestion has been that his call-up was going to make the Braves even better and more explosive.

Whether he gets called up or not, the Braves production at 3B is heading downward from here.

I see Camargo as a somewhat marginal MLB starter with maybe a Prado ceiling. I wouldn't include him in a list of "and just wait till this guy comes up." But he might be better than Flaherty. Probably is.
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but the point is RF is highly likely (guaranteed) to be garbage for ROS, while camargo has a decent shot of actually playing well. camargo won't be an improvement over what RF has already provided, but he'll be an improvement over what he's going to provide ROS.
 
I agree with thethe that I would rather find out what Camargo can be instead of being reminded of what Flaherty has been.

The only hesitation I have is that we have seen AA find gold in the bargain bin several times in Toronto, and his discount pickups have performed pretty well here to date as well. Maybe he is onto something similar to the well known launch angle changes that is allowing him to successfully identify break out candidates. I didn't expect Flaherty, Tucker, or Sanchez to add as much in the entire season as they have added in the first couple of weeks.
 
mfree80 said:
I think I gotta go with thethe on this one. Young guys get better and typically have a year when the promise turns into who they really are. The trend the past two years with Camargo has turned upward pretty significantly. Some of you believe it is a hot streak and will shortly be followed by regression, while others think he has turned a corner and will be a better than average player going forward. I don't know which is the case, but I am an optimist, and sure look forward to finding out.

We know what Flaherty is. We don't yet know what Camargo is. Time to find out.
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The minute Flaherty's hot streak ends.

Same with Acuna/Tucker/Markakis.

There's absolutely no harm in playing those guys while they're hot - we simply don't know that winning an extra couple of games in April (while they are) won't positively affect the team's win total at the end of the season.
 
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Super said:
but the point is RF is highly likely (guaranteed) to be garbage for ROS, while camargo has a decent shot of actually playing well. camargo won't be an improvement over what RF has already provided, but he'll be an improvement over what he's going to provide ROS.
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That's your point and I mostly agree with you. And with the point that seeing what you have in Camargo is probably more important than seeing if Ryan Flaherty is suddenly good.

The particular sentiment I was reacting to was "wait till camargo comes up, we're going to be really awesome."

Grumble, grumble. Get of my lawn.
 
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clvclv said:
The minute Flaherty's hot streak ends.

Same with Acuna/Tucker/Markakis.

There's absolutely no harm in playing those guys while they're hot - we simply don't know that winning an extra couple of games in April (while they are) won't positively affect the team's win total at the end of the season.
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Please enlighten us how to determine when a hot streak ends lol. Share with the rest of the baseball world how to predict hot/cold streaks. It would be a hugely valuable contribution.

This whole "play them while they are hot" schtick is classic 90s thinking.
 
Enscheff said:
Please enlighten us how to determine when a hot streak ends lol. Share with the rest of the baseball world how to predict hot/cold streaks. It would be a hugely valuable contribution.


This whole "play them while they are hot" schtick is classic 90s thinking.
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I thought YOU were the genius that could do that - you mean you can't? Have you checked with FanGraphs yet???
 
clvclv said:
I thought YOU were the genius that could do that - you mean you can't? Have you checked with FanGraphs yet???
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I’m not the one saying moronic things about hot hands.

It’s pretty well known by all but the most dense that those things can’t be predicted, so it comes as no surprise that you think it can.
 
Uhhhh Flaherty isn't exactly on a hot streak now, and most of his season came from one game in the laugher vs Philly earlier...
 
Enscheff said:
I’m not the one saying moronic things about hot hands.

It’s pretty well known by all but the most dense that those things can’t be predicted, so it comes as no surprise that you think it can.
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Find where I "predicted" it and you get a cookie. We know you have the time and are dying to.
 
sturg33 said:
Tucker has been legit awful lately.
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He's certainly not "hot" by any stretch, in his last 9 games he's 3-22 1 HR, 4 RBIs, 1 BB and 7 Ks. Over the same stretch, Acuna's 5-36 a 2B, 5 RBIs, 5 BBs, and 14 Ks.

Again, what's the rush? When Acuna warms up - even slightly - he plays. Find one person that has said anything to the contrary.

If the team's going to struggle to win 75 games like the numbers-folks predict, what difference does a handful of games make? Let him get his feet under him, and hopefully he becomes a difference-maker the minute you plug him into the lineup.
 
clvclv said:
He's certainly not "hot" by any stretch, in his last 9 games he's 3-22 1 HR, 4 RBIs, 1 BB and 7 Ks. Over the same stretch, Acuna's 5-36 a 2B, 5 RBIs, 5 BBs, and 14 Ks.

Again, what's the rush? When Acuna warms up - even slightly - he plays. Find one person that has said anything to the contrary.

If the team's going to struggle to win 75 games like the numbers-folks predict, what difference does a handful of games make? Let him get his feet under him, and hopefully he becomes a difference-maker the minute you plug him into the lineup.
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There's no rush.

But Acuna is far more likely to be better than Tucker going forward
 
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