Why did Bobby Cox retire?

zitothebrave said:
I think the playoff shortcomings came because he did face guys who were tactically better and he faced just flat out better teams. After 96, the Braves didn't have a team very often who was close to a World Series winner aside from luck.
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Can't think of anyone who believes that the '91 Twins and '92 Blue Jays were better teams than the Braves. The '93 Braves were better than the 2 previous rosters (Maddux, Crime Dog). The '96 Yankees didn't exactly outclass either.
 
Knucksie said:
Can't think of anyone who believes that the '91 Twins and '92 Blue Jays were better teams than the Braves. The '93 Braves were better than the 2 previous rosters (Maddux, Crime Dog). The '96 Yankees didn't exactly outclass either.
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While some of that is true. Is it Bobby's fault Lonnie Smith forgot how to run the bases or Wholers blew it against Leyritz?
 
bravesfanMatt said:
162 game season. Bobby was supreme. Playoffs. He was continuely out classed. He was very by the book, use your gut and stay with what got you there kind of manager.
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Why we lost all of them.

We had a better team most of the time and a way better pitching staff. He sucked as a manager. If we had someone like LaDoucha or Scoscia I guarantee we would have at least 3 or 4 more WS wins.

I got banned by Bill Skanks and Mike because I tore into Bobby on several occasions during that time.

I was banned from saying Bobby Cocksucker, Booby Cox and Booby Cocks.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
162 game season. Bobby was supreme. Playoffs. He was continuely out classed. He was very by the book, use your gut and stay with what got you there kind of manager.
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And pitching coaches are why major pitchers aren't good and hitting coaches are why major league hitters don't get hits and bullpen coaches are why relievers walk people.

Baseball is almost entirely about players executing against one another in one on one situations. That's it.

I hate the Braves didn't win more WS during their window, but that window closed a lot earlier than Cox's tenure did even though the Braves continued to win division championships.
 
thewupk said:
of course. baseball is a team sport with individual performances. there really is no team work among players like in basketball and football. the closest thing you get is the battery. there are no schemes or rotations to help win games like you see in other sports.




Very few managers are bad enough to literally cost you game after game. One of the primary reasons managers are there is as a scapegoat for the GM assembling a horrible team.
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Fredi had to be on that short list.

I wouldn't put Snitker there yet.
 
zitothebrave said:
He was 69 when he retired.
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I think overall there were several factors. Bobby's age, Bobby's wife was ready for him to stay home, and very simply Bobby and Wren didn't see eye to eye. Rumors say it started over Smoltz's and Glavine's exits.
 
VirginiaBrave said:
I think overall there were several factors. Bobby's age, Bobby's wife was ready for him to stay home, and very simply Bobby and Wren didn't see eye to eye. Rumors say it started over Smoltz's and Glavine's exits.
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Glavine yea but Smoltz could barely pick up a baseball when he left...LaRussa and Tito found that out quick too
 
Knucksie said:
Can't think of anyone who believes that the '91 Twins and '92 Blue Jays were better teams than the Braves. The '93 Braves were better than the 2 previous rosters (Maddux, Crime Dog). The '96 Yankees didn't exactly outclass either.
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Well, is it Cox's fault that the Twins were allowed to manipulate the air conditioning and Kent Hrbek got an out that was illegal. In a game that could have resulted in a BRaves win which would have meant the BRaves would have clinched at home.

1992 the Jays were 100% better than the Braves. Their pitching was a tad bit worse but not that much. Braves were a product of a weak NL at the start of that decade. While the Jays had to contest with A's, Orioles, etc. the Braves had a much easier time in the NL.

1996 BRaves were better than the Yankees. Wholers serving up a meatball to a bum was demoralizing.

But again your case against Cox choking in the playoffs is basically a few attempts. Braves conversely were worse than the Indians in 95, a lot worse. As far as 93 vs. 92 or 91 you're mostly correct, that what the Braves were positive because of McGriff and Maddux they were negative in Pendleton falling a ton, and "down years" from Smoltz and Glavine. They should have beaten the Phillies, but **** happens. And the main perpetrator of that **** was Curt Schilling. Who is a beast in the postseason.
 
zitothebrave said:
04 and 10 were pretty good teams. 04 had Drew, Jones, Jones, Furcal, Giles before he fully fell apart, an effective LaRoche/Julio platoon. And of course surprise it's the one good season of Johnny Estrada's career. Pitching was a little more harrowing, that's for sure as for starters it was basically Wright and Thomson. Thomson was an undervalued pitcher in Colorado and Texas, he was very solid for his era but his ERA never really matched his peripherals. Wright was the best creation from Cox/Mazzone. They took someone with great raw ability and got him to perform more consistently. 2010 was a great team. Pre-arm break down Hanson, pre-face bust Heyward, Wagner/Venters/Saito shutting everything down in the pen. Prado at peak form, Mac at peak form, Infante at peak form. Really the only ****s on the team were Melky and McLouth. If McLouth hadn't just magically forgotten how to play baseball when he was traded here, or if Melky just took his roids one year sooner, the 2010 team would have really been epic.

People forget that 2010-2013 or so were all supposed to be great years. Braves had a lot of players coming up and the vets were all guys in their mid-late 20s. Aside from Chipper, Lowe, and Hudson we didn't have many old starters. Most of our starters were younger. THat being said, Fredi is not a good manager, and that was obvious.
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I’m talking about the 2010 team he ended up making the playoffs with. That lineup was hot garbage, and the team was missing some key pieces in the bullpen like Saito and eventually Wagner. It may be the best bullpen we’ve ever had though. Also, our rotation was Hudson, Hanson, and a Derek Lowe hot streak.

‘04 was a great team, but it had a lot to do with career years and flashes in the pan. Chipper had the worst year of his career. ‘05 was pretty meh when you look back on it.
 
CyYoung31 said:
I’m talking about the 2010 team he ended up making the playoffs with. That lineup was hot garbage, and the team was missing some key pieces in the bullpen like Saito and eventually Wagner. It may be the best bullpen we’ve ever had though. Also, our rotation was Hudson, Hanson, and a Derek Lowe hot streak.

‘04 was a great team, but it had a lot to do with career years and flashes in the pan. Chipper had the worst year of his career. ‘05 was pretty meh when you look back on it.
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05 was a pretty meh team aside from the stars. Andruw, Smoltz, Huddy, all were stars. Giles, Chipper when healthy, Furcal and the half season of Francouer pretty much rounded out our offense. 05 was the year where everyone assumed the Braves could do no wrong because of guys like Jorge Sosa becoming flukes. Really set up our 06 failure, when we had nothing behind Hudson and Smoltz. Our offense was mostly fine in 06. Our failure was our pitching. .
 
zitothebrave said:
Well, is it Cox's fault that the Twins were allowed to manipulate the air conditioning and Kent Hrbek got an out that was illegal. In a game that could have resulted in a BRaves win which would have meant the BRaves would have clinched at home.

1992 the Jays were 100% better than the Braves. Their pitching was a tad bit worse but not that much. Braves were a product of a weak NL at the start of that decade. While the Jays had to contest with A's, Orioles, etc. the Braves had a much easier time in the NL.

1996 BRaves were better than the Yankees. Wholers serving up a meatball to a bum was demoralizing.

But again your case against Cox choking in the playoffs is basically a few attempts. Braves conversely were worse than the Indians in 95, a lot worse. As far as 93 vs. 92 or 91 you're mostly correct, that what the Braves were positive because of McGriff and Maddux they were negative in Pendleton falling a ton, and "down years" from Smoltz and Glavine. They should have beaten the Phillies, but **** happens. And the main perpetrator of that **** was Curt Schilling. Who is a beast in the postseason.
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I didn't mention anything specifically in this thread about Cox in the playoffs. That must've been somebody else.
 
When it comes to playoffs I only feel like the Braves failed in 1996 and '97. But it is undeniable that Cox got bested a lot in close tight games. Mainly because Bobby had a formula that worked a lot over 162, but he was reluctant to gamble and it cost him in a short series.
 
VirginiaBrave said:
When it comes to playoffs I only feel like the Braves failed in 1996 and '97. But it is undeniable that Cox got bested a lot in close tight games. Mainly because Bobby had a formula that worked a lot over 162, but he was reluctant to gamble and it cost him in a short series.
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Eric Gregg failed in '97.

RIP (rest in punishment)
 
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