Snitker Bullpen Usage

[nsacpi]

Bullpen usage gets discussed a lot during the game threads. There is a lot of second guessing. I think the second guessing would have more credibility if better alternatives and plans were discussed ahead of time. With that in mind, here is what I see with respect to tonight's game:

1) Viz has pitched the last two nights (16 pitches Tuesday, 12 Wedsnesday). So has Minter (9 and 12 pitches). While those pitch counts are not so high as to preclude them pitching a third consecutive game, I would try to avoid it.

2) My plan for tonight would therefore start with the presumption that Winkler is my ninth inning guy in any sort of high leverage situation.

3) The basic assumption for starters these days is they go 6 innings. If we are tied or ahead, the 7th and 8th inning guys should be one of Biddle/Gohara in the 7th and Carle in the 8th.

4) You also need to hold back a long man in case it is a long extra inning game. That would be the other of Biddle/Gohara. Try not to use up both Biddle and Gohara tonight since you ideally want one available as your long guy for the next game. Of course there is always the option of shuttling someone up from AAA, so this is not an overriding concern. But it would be best not to use both up.

5) Sam Freeman threw 16 pitches last night. He should be available tonight. Moylan threw 28 last night. Probably not available. So out of a pen of 8 we should try to avoid using 3 (Moylan, Viz and Minter) tonight.

 

[nsacpi]

bit of a questionable move bringing in Freeman to pitch the 6th inning...he pitched the previous night...maybe he was warming up...in which case the question becomes why was he the one warming up

 

[Braves1976]

bit of a questionable move bringing in Freeman to pitch the 6th inning...he pitched the previous night...maybe he was warming up...in which case the question becomes why was he the one warming up

Yea, Biddle should've been warming up as you said IMO. That would've saved Freeman for next game. Now he's not available unless you're Snit.

That said, Snit was right to pinch hit for Folty with that shot we had and thankfully that big inning set up resting the rest of the bullpen with Gohara saving it. If not for that big inning everyone probably warms up and most end up pitching again. That could've been ugly since they needed a day off.

 

[nsacpi]

Yea, Biddle should've been warming up as you said IMO. That would've saved Freeman for next game. Now he's not available unless you're Snit.

at least most of pen will be available tomorrow...Gohara not...and Freeman not except maybe for one batter...Biddle probably held back as the long guy in the event of a long multi inning game...leaves Snit with a fairly full deck to play with

 

[Braves1976]

at least most of pen will be available tomorrow...Gohara not...and Freeman not except maybe for one batter...Biddle probably held back as the long guy in the event of a long multi inning game...leaves Snit with a fairly full deck to play with

Haha, yea I basically added that point with my edit before seeing your response.

 

[50PoundHead]

bit of a questionable move bringing in Freeman to pitch the 6th inning...he pitched the previous night...maybe he was warming up...in which case the question becomes why was he the one warming up

He started warming up when Tucker pinch hit for Foltynewicz. Hard to foresee a grand slam HR.

I tell you, modern managers can't catch a break. If the score stays 1-1 and Snitker brings in Biddle and Biddle gets rocked (and Braves end up losing), people will gripe that Snitker didn't use his best relievers in a high leverage situation.

 

[nsacpi]

He started warming up when Tucker pinch hit for Foltynewicz. Hard to foresee a grand slam HR.

I tell you, modern managers can't catch a break. If the score stays 1-1 and Snitker brings in Biddle and Biddle gets rocked (and Braves end up losing), people will gripe that Snitker didn't use his best relievers in a high leverage situation.

my quibble is Biddle has shown enough to merit a look in higher leverage situation...he was the more rested of the two...tie game going into the bottom of the sixth would have been a good spot to bring him in

the more guys the manager trusts in high leverage situations the better off the team and the pen will be

 

[Jaw]

Bullpen usage gets discussed a lot during the game threads. There is a lot of second guessing. I think the second guessing would have more credibility if better alternatives and plans were discussed ahead of time.

My favorite thread idea in a long time. Well done nascar pie.

 

[nsacpi]

My favorite thread idea in a long time. Well done nascar pie.

Thanks. I think Snitker gets a certain amount of unfair criticism, some of it by posters who call out particular decisions with the benefit of hindsight. What I'm trying to do here is set up a forum for people to discuss ahead of time some of the game to game decisions he has to make with respect to the pen. Of course, the game threads are also useful for that. After the Marlins tied up the score in the bottom of the fifth, I posted something to the effect that we should pinch hit for Folty if we get to his spot (he was due to hit 5th in the top of the sixth). Snitker did that and we ended up having a big inning. I noted in the same post that I would bring in Biddle or Gohara to pitch in the 6th. I didn't specify that this was dependent on the score. I just thought given who was available and rested in the pen that Biddle or Gohara should come in at that point.

With a lot of these decisions the manager has to weigh how his choices affect the team's chances of winning that particular game with how it affects his pen over the next few games (and longer term). I understand the reasoning for using Freeman last night. Just think it was slightly sub-optimal.

 

[DirkPiggler]

One thing I like about Snitker is that he at least appears willing to listen to those who are smarter than he is with respect to lineups, positioning, etc. He's not dead set on being a dinosaur come hell or high water.

Fredi never seemed to want to listen to anyone other than Bobby, although in fairness there may not have been anyone smarter in the front office at that time to give him direction.

 

[nsacpi]

Snit caught some flak in the game thread tonight, but generally I thought his decisions made sense. There are nights your starter doesn't have it and during the regular season under most circumstances you still try to get 5 innings/90 pitches out of him. The idea is to protect your pen.

I was fine with bringing in Moylan to pitch the 6th. Sure the first hitter is going to be a lefty pinch hitter, but the next three were righties.

 

[bravesfanMatt]

Snit caught some flak in the game thread tonight, but generally I thought his decisions made sense. There are nights your starter doesn't have it and during the regular season under most circumstances you still try to get 5 innings/90 pitches out of him. The idea is to protect your pen.

I was fine with bringing in Moylan to pitch the 6th. Sure the first hitter is going to be a lefty pinch hitter, but the next three were righties.

I didn't watch the game, but I agree.. you have to ride the starter for as long as you can.. sometimes you lose a battle to win the war. now pinch hitting BUSTista vs. a RHP is DUMB

 

[nsacpi]

I didn't watch the game, but I agree.. you have to ride the starter for as long as you can.. sometimes you lose a battle to win the war. now pinch hitting BUSTista vs. a RHP is DUMB

well there is the overarching issue of whether Bautista has anything left in the tank but he has been a reverse split hitter the last few years

 

[bravesfanMatt]

well there is the overarching issue of whether Bautista has anything left in the tank but he has been a reverse split hitter the last few years

ok.. I will rephrase my statement. Using BUSTista to hit is DUMB..

thank you for the correction.

 

[nsacpi]

ok.. I will rephrase my statement. Using BUSTista to hit is DUMB..

thank you for the correction.

de nada

 

[nsacpi]

Snit used five relievers tonight, and they came through for him. The only nit to pick was bringing in Minter to face Bour to get the lefty-lefty matchup with two outs and no one on in the 7th. Everyone should be available tomorrow with the possible exception of Moylan, who has pitched in consecutive games.

 

[nsacpi]

Winkler and Viz have both pitched on consecutive days. Against the Cubs tomorrow, Snit will probably try to navigate through any high leverage innings with Freeman, Carle and Minter.

I'm thinking it would be useful to get Gohara an inning if possible tomorrow. If there is a mid-game weather delay, he might get more than one.

 

[thewupk]

Winkler and Viz have both pitched on consecutive days. Against the Cubs tomorrow, Snit will probably try to navigate through any high leverage innings with Freeman, Carle and Minter.

I'm thinking it would be useful to get Gohara an inning if possible tomorrow. If there is a mid-game weather delay, he might get more than one.

Ideally the Braves have a decent lead and Julio can go 6-7. Gohara for 1-2 and close it up with Minter.

 

[Heyward]

Winkler and Viz have both pitched on consecutive days. Against the Cubs tomorrow, Snit will probably try to navigate through any high leverage innings with Freeman, Carle and Minter.

I'm thinking it would be useful to get Gohara an inning if possible tomorrow. If there is a mid-game weather delay, he might get more than one.

Ideally get 6 from Julio, and Carle/Freeman/Minter final 3 innings if we lead.

 

[nsacpi]

Ideally get 6 from Julio, and Carle/Freeman/Minter final 3 innings if we lead.

That's how it went. Snit made a good call bringing in Carle in the 7th. Viz and Winkler got the day off. Freeman probably gets tomorrow off.