GDT -- Wed, 5/23 vs Phiiiies

DirkPiggler said:
Agree, but we haven't reached that point yet.

Using your reasoning you would've given up on Dale Murphy after 1978. I'm not at all saying Swanson will reach Murph's level of production - just pointing out one example out of many who weren't finished products after fewer than two big league seasons.
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I am not advocating turning Swanson into a bench player. But there is an area between bench player and automatic starter. If we had a third option for the left side of the infield, some sort of rotation could be employed. I think this is the appropriate solution for where Swanson and Camargo are in their careers and for a team that aspires to play in the post-season this year.
 
msstate7 said:
You don't have to go back that far... look at our previous SS.

Simmons ops (skipped AAA also BTW)...
2012 = .751 (kind of a hot start like Swanson)
2013 = .692
2014 = .617
2015 = .660
2016 = .690
2017 = .752
2018 = .857

Now I realize there is a significant difference in simmons' defense and Swanson's, but Swanson is still very good. I doubt seriously you see Swanson stay under .700 ops again for a season. .700 ops and his defense is a nice asset at ss. I expect Swanson to get better and better with the bat too. I expect Swanson to be our Brandon Crawford
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I think the Brandon Crawford comp is a really good one.
 
nsacpi said:
I am not advocating turning Swanson into a bench player. But there is an area between bench player and automatic starter. If we had a third option for the left side of the infield, some sort of rotation could be employed. I think this is the appropriate solution for where Swanson and Camargo are in their careers and for a team that aspires to play in the post-season this year.
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so the best option is to let neither of them play full-time and thus risk stunting both of their developments?
 
Super said:
so the best option is to let neither of them play full-time and thus risk stunting both of their developments?
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I don't think having 400-450 PAs this year as opposed to 600-650 will make any difference in their development.

But having someone like Beltre/Moose/Lowrie to steady our production from the left side of the infield could be quite helpful in the second half and post-season if we get there.
 
nsacpi said:
I would say if their career WAR numbers are a little misleading, then a WAR number for a subset of their career is even more misleading. The data are what they are. After a certain point you have to set aside pedigree.
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a player like camargo having to play full time for an entire season would probably hurt his numbers. but he's never had to do it.
 
nsacpi said:
I don't think having 400-450 PAs this year as opposed to 600-650 will make any difference in their development.
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not playing every day could.
look at scott kingery. the phillies move him all over and don't play him every day. i think it's hurting him.
it's just too early for this. one hot streak and one cold streak and we're having a different conversation.
 
Super said:
not playing every day could.
look at scott kingery. the phillies move him all over and don't play him every day. i think it's hurting him.
it's just too early for this. one hot streak and one cold streak and we're having a different conversation.
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all right let me know when we've had enough at bats from Swanson to draw any conclusions
 
msstate7 said:
What were your conclusions about Simmons as a hitter his first 1.5 seasons?
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one thing that I always wondered about Simmons was the low BABIP for a player with obvious outstanding hand-eye coordination and very low strikeout rate....i know he had the issue with pop ups...but it seemed to me at the time that his BABIP numbers would improve...i thought this even after multiple seasons of low BABIPs. It seemed reasonable to me to think it would normalize to somewhere around .280 rather than stick to the very low numbers he had (.247 and .263 in his first two full seasons). Of course this year's .335 BABIP is not sustainable either, but there was always the potential out there for him to have this kind of year
 
msstate7 said:
Fair enough... point is hitters aren't always a finished product at 24
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a lot of players improve at that age but others dont...it concerns me that his strikeout rate is going in the wrong direction

Camargo on the other hand has improved his walk and strikeout rates (small sample caveat applies)
 
nsacpi said:
yup...and with Kingery its the opposite...i guess everyone is different
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difference is camargo playing favorable match ups and riding a SSS BABIP to a good WAR. last season he had a 65 wRC+ as a lefty vs RHP. perhaps if he played every day vs RHP his numbers wouldn't have been nearly as good. or, most definitely would not have been.
 
nsacpi said:
a lot of players improve at that age but others dont...it concerns me that his strikeout rate is going in the wrong direction

Camargo on the other hand has improved his walk and strikeout rates (small sample caveat applies)
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Camargo’s walk rate is absurdly high compared to anything he’s ever done before. That’s a good bet to crater. Especially if he continues hitting .200.

On the other hand Dansby is showing signs he might never deal with sliders particularly well.
 
Southcack77 said:
Camargo’s walk rate is absurdly high compared to anything he’s ever done before. That’s a good bet to crater. Especially if he continues hitting .200.

On the other hand Dansby is showing signs he might never deal with sliders particularly well.
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I dont expect Camargo's walk rate to remain this high...but it does seem his control of the strike zone is improving
 
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