New Fangraphs Top 131 Prospects

chipchildress said:
nothing to do with prospect fatigue. more to do with your reading comprehension.

trading wentz or touki has nothing to do with ceilings and floors. it's about obtaining value.

folty is how old? you think it's unreasonable that touki could take a similar amount to time to gain consistency?
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I'm not going to do the whole "reading comprehension" back and forth with you, but I said that it could happen, but the most likely outcome is that we know who he is by the time he is 24. I didn't say that it was unreasonable to think he COULD take a Folty-like track. But that would be a pretty rare outcome. And btw, Folty is only 26 right now. How many pitchers have had career arcs where they didn't truly figure it out until they were 28 or older? Arrieta? Rich Hill (a lot of his was injury)? I can't remember a ton of guys who took that long to find themselves, or teams who were patient enough to let a track like that happen. It happens, but its the exception, not the rule.

Edit: I guess maybe Max Scherzer too? He didn't become ace level until later on, but he was still a very good pitcher from ages 23-27.
 
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chipchildress said:
and the braves want to win next year.
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Touki is in his 5th professional season of baseball, so if he took the exact same career arc as Mike, we could expect him to be a 1.5 WAR pitcher in 3 years and a potential ace in 4 or 5. I don't think that is how it will go down, but even if it were I wouldn't want to trade that.

Edit: Especially over a guy like Wentz, who I don't ever see as anything more than an average number 3.
 
Enscheff said:
Imagine the players a development staff like the Rays or Cards could produce with that list
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I remember a few years back I read somewhere that our pitcher development staff was light years behind every other team except for the Mariners. That is why this pitching first rebuild was so horrifying to me. I wonder if it is still that bad and we have just gotten a little lucky, or if there are improvements that have been made since I saw that.
 
BeanieAntics said:
I remember a few years back I read somewhere that our pitcher development staff was light years behind every other team except for the Mariners. That is why this pitching first rebuild was so horrifying to me. I wonder if it is still that bad and we have just gotten a little lucky, or if there are improvements that have been made since I saw that.
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What makes you think they have gotten lucky or improved? The only good young pitchers in the current MLB rotation are both due for substantial regression.

There has been essentially zero contributions from young SPs other than what those 2 guys have done this year. I haven't seen a single pitcher on the farm make any significant leaps in the last year or so.
 
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SJ24 said:
Pache now essentially a top 25 prospect.

Nerdy Enscheff is NOT pleased.
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Your obsession with me has reached the level of your obsession with Pache. Don't tell daddy...

Contrary to your silly comment, I'm stoked Pache is climbing these rankings, same with Riley. He is a very good prospect, same with Riley. It is possible to say a guy is a good prospect without leading a circle jerk around his picture with tehteh though.

It's really too bad you aren't man enough to honor your bets...now we all have to read your blabber forever.

Now off you go Taylor, time to study for whatever menial course you're taking on your way to a useless degree. Shoo, shoo!!
 
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FanGraphs Rave over Braves In Top 100 (plus 31)

FANGRAPHS has named baseball's top prospects, post draft. And the includes 14 Braves, 13 of them in the top 100.

1. Ronald Acuna
23. Mike Siroka
24. Kyle Wright
26. Luiz Gohara
28. Cristian Pache
40. Austin Riley
41. Ian Anderson
51. Touki Toussaint
90. Max Fried
92. Joey Wentz
94. Drew Waters
98. Carter Stewart
99. Brett Cumberland
105. Kolby Allard
 
rico43 said:
FANGRAPHS has named baseball's top prospects, post draft. And the includes 14 Braves, 13 of them in the top 100.

1. Ronald Acuna
23. Mike Siroka
24. Kyle Wright
26. Luiz Gohara
28. Cristian Pache
40. Austin Riley
41. Ian Anderson
51. Touki Toussaint
90. Max Fried
92. Joey Wentz
94. Drew Waters
98. Carter Stewart
99. Brett Cumberland
105. Kolby Allard
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So you moved the post you used to create a new thread here, and then left the post where I told you about this thread as the only post in the thread you created?
 
Enscheff said:
So you moved the post you used to create a new thread here, and then left the post where I told you about this thread as the only post in the thread you created?
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You didn't tell me about it. Saw it on Twitter. Sorry for the affront.

It might not come as a shock that I don't spend very much time on this board these days. I only move outdated threads, and I usually don't read them through.
 
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nsacpi said:
I don't think anyone is untouchable. For the right deal, I would trade anyone on my "keepers" list.

But for the kind of trades we are contemplating for the deadline, I don't think so. We should be able to get Moose or Beltre for a combination of say Fried plus a lesser prospect.
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Have always agreed with the "nobody's untouchable in the right deal" mantra, but not so sure I'm as gung-ho about it these days as I used to be.

When you start lining up those guys on the "in the right deal" list with the obvious holes, who are you trading them for? Kershaw? No. Harper? No. Machado? No. Donaldson? No. You have no guaranteed extended control over those guys. The list of potential targets I'd be willing to give up anybody in our Top 5 for fits on both hands - deGrom (would have to overpay so much to get him within the division it wouldn't be worth it), Syndergaard (same as deGrom), Forrest Whitley (no chance the Astros move him), Arrenado (not unless you're willing to give him $350+ million to extend him), and MAYBE Vlad Jr., Eloy Jimenez, Fernando Tatis Jr., or Brendan Rodgers - and none of those prospects are getting moved regardless of the return.

I'm fine with AA moving guys on the lower half of the list to get some immediate help since the funds are available to try to re-sign any rentals this winter, but if he's not willing to do whatever it takes to bring back Harper or Machado if he sells out to go get them to make a run this season I wouldn't move any top-end guys at this point.
 
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clvclv said:
Have always agreed with the "nobody's untouchable in the right deal" mantra, but not so sure I'm as gung-ho about it these days as I used to be.

When you start lining up those guys on the "in the right deal" list with the obvious holes, who are you trading them for? Kershaw? No. Harper? No. Machado? No. Donaldson? No. You have no guaranteed extended control over those guys. The list of potential targets I'd be willing to give up anybody in our Top 5 for fits on both hands - deGrom (would have to overpay so much to get him within the division it wouldn't be worth it), Syndergaard (same as deGrom), Forrest Whitley (no chance the Astros move him), Arrenado (not unless you're willing to give him $350+ million to extend him), and MAYBE Vlad Jr., Eloy Jimenez, Fernando Tatis Jr., or Brendan Rodgers - and none of those prospects are getting moved regardless of the return.

I'm fine with AA moving guys on the lower half of the list to get some immediate help since the funds are available to try to re-sign any rentals this winter, but if he's not willing to do whatever it takes to bring back Harper or Machado if he sells out to go get them to make a run this season I wouldn't move any top-end guys at this point.
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If the Braves can get Sale for Jenkins, surely they can get deGrom for...Sims? Right?

Makes too much sense NOT to happen!
 
The way it’s shaking out...what we need (as in the big holes), and what is available really isn’t too interesting.

Catcher: Pay thru the nose for Realmuto (who can’t frame)? Posey....maybe....what’s the price?? Not very hard to sign back the two guys we have to reasonable contracts and be very content for a couple of years.

Third Base: Trade for a rental like Moose?....maybe....what’s the price?? Sign Machado to a ten year deal for 30 +mil a year and loose a draft pick? I can’t see us doing that when we have Riley close...no matter if we trade for a rental or not.

RF: I can’t believe what I’m about to say...like...really can’t. I would be fine Nick to a one year and have Peterson on the bench as a back up. I would also be ok with signing Pollock (our best chance of adding a high profile position player but he can’t seem to stay healthy). Harper is not even worth it even if we could afford him and we can’t (and compete long term). I believe Pasche could be ready in 2020....Waters/Jenista in 2021. Probably would be fine thinking short term there.

That’s it for position players.

Pitching:
Relief - This is where we can churn up some of our farm depth to add bullpen help. We might sign a guy and trade for a guy. A few key additions would take this bullpen from good to great. Some like paying Kimbrel (who I love), but loosing a draft pick and paying an older pitcher doesn’t seem to smart unless it’s a home town discount...which won’t happen. Between the farm guys coming up next year, a smart mid range signing and a trade ...bullpen arms should be covered without spending a ton of money or trade capitol.
Starters: Who is out there to sign who is worth the money? Kershaw....he can’t stay healthy (and we couldn’t afford him anyway). What starting pitcher out there is there to sign that could have that ACE impact on the club?? None. We have a log jam of pitchers. Who could we get in a trade (assuming Thor and Degrom are not possible)? Bumgarner is one of the few guys I can think of.

So...IF San Fran decided to rebuild (which is iffy). If we wanted to slide some big chips in and go after a Posey(they just drafted Bart), Bumgarner trade (knowing Bumgarner has little control left and isn’t quite as vauluable)....that might be a deal to pursue.

That would make us contenders. It would cost us but when you think about the picks lost in signing big free agents and the huge long term contracts they get. Bumgarner, Newk, Folty, Gohara, Soroka sounds pretty amazing.

Flozuki still has better numbers than Posey though....so I’m not sold on Posey.
 
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TheBravos said:
The way it’s shaking out...what we need (as in the big holes), and what is available really isn’t too interesting.

Catcher: Pay thru the nose for Realmuto (who can’t frame)? Posey....maybe....what’s the price?? Not very hard to sign back the two guys we have to reasonable contracts and be very content for a couple of years.

Third Base: Trade for a rental like Moose?....maybe....what’s the price?? Sign Machado to a ten year deal for 30 +mil a year and loose a draft pick? I can’t see us doing that when we have Riley close...no matter if we trade for a rental or not.

RF: I can’t believe what I’m about to say...like...really can’t. I would be fine Nick to a one year and have Peterson on the bench as a back up. I would also be ok with signing Pollock (our best chance of adding a high profile position player but he can’t seem to stay healthy). Harper is not even worth it even if we could afford him and we can’t (and compete long term). I believe Pasche could be ready in 2020....Waters/Jenista in 2021. Probably would be fine thinking short term there.

That’s it for position players.

Pitching:
Relief - This is where we can churn up some of our farm depth to add bullpen help. We might sign a guy and trade for a guy. A few key additions would take this bullpen from good to great. Some like paying Kimbrel (who I love), but loosing a draft pick and paying an older pitcher doesn’t seem to smart unless it’s a home town discount...which won’t happen. Between the farm guys coming up next year, a smart mid range signing and a trade ...bullpen arms should be covered without spending a ton of money or trade capitol.
Starters: Who is out there to sign who is worth the money? Kershaw....he can’t stay healthy (and we couldn’t afford him anyway). What starting pitcher out there is there to sign that could have that ACE impact on the club?? None. We have a log jam of pitchers. Who could we get in a trade (assuming Thor and Degrom are not possible)? Bumgarner is one of the few guys I can think of.

So...IF San Fran decided to rebuild (which is iffy). If we wanted to slide some big chips in and go after a Posey(they just drafted Bart), Bumgarner trade (knowing Bumgarner has little control left and isn’t quite as vauluable)....that might be a deal to pursue.

That would make us contenders. It would cost us but when you think about the picks lost in signing big free agents and the huge long term contracts they get. Bumgarner, Newk, Folty, Gohara, Soroka sounds pretty amazing.
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Good summary, it’s a good illustration of how little there is this offseason to truly help us out. Side note on catching, I’m totally content keeping Flowers as our guy for the next couple years considering framing supposedly ages well. We could do a lot worse than him and hope that one of our minor leaguers (Contreras, Cumberland, Lugbauer or Jackson) magically step up and become the long term answer.

If none of them do that, then we can find an alternative when the Flowers decline starts.
 
CJ9 said:
Good summary, it’s a good illustration of how little there is this offseason to truly help us out. Side note on catching, I’m totally content keeping Flowers as our guy for the next couple years considering framing supposedly ages well. We could do a lot worse than him and hope that one of our minor leaguers (Contreras, Cumberland, Lugbauer or Jackson) magically step up and become the long term answer.

If none of them do that, then we can find an alternative when the Flowers decline starts.
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I think it really will be the smaller but smarter
Moves that get us over the hump. So many big trades flop.
 
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