GDT: Braves @ Dodgers (NLDS Game 4, October 7, 2013)

[thethe]

Even if you don't agree regarding Lohse/Teheran, Wren still ignored the depth problem. Saying Huddy should've been ANYTHING is just being silly. You can't do that when you are building a team for a 162-game season.

Wren could have acquired someone at the deadline thats fine. But before the season like you are advocating makes no sense. There was no room in the starting rotation to add someone.

You aren't getting a frontline guy to be in the AAA rotation and the guys that came up during the year actually did a good job. But, thats why they are willing to go to AAA because they aren't big time pitchers so whats the difference for now?

 

[nsacpi]

Even if you don't agree regarding Lohse, you still answered your own question.

No, that part we are in agreement. I think several of us discussed this early this year. We needed more starting pitching options in AAA. There was one spot in the Gwinnett rotation in particular that went to Tom Corcoran at the start of the season. The season is so long and the attrition rate for pitchers is so high that you don't want to waste even one spot on the AAA rotation on someone who has very little chance of being able to help the big league team.

In retrospect, I wish David Hale had been given 3 or 4 more major league starts (some of which went to Garcia). He might yet play a significant role tonight.

 

[The Tariff King]

Even if you don't agree regarding Lohse/Teheran, Wren still ignored the depth problem. Saying Huddy should've been ANYTHING is just being silly. You can't do that when you are building a team for a 162-game season.

Other than tommy john, Huddy's been pretty reliable in his career and for us. He's had a few DL stints but what starting pitcher hasn't?

What type of depth were you looking for? You can't just sign guys to the AAA club and have htem ready to come up when we need. Only guys who take those deals are guys like Kameron Loe or Freddy Garcia.

We started out with the projected rotation of

Hudson
Medlen
Minor
Teheran
Maholm

with the assurance that Beachy could come back later on, and that we had some guys in the minors who could give us a few spot starts llike we've done for years.

Wren knew it was time to take the diapers off Teheran after he got rid of Delgado.

What more depth were you thinking of other than signing old guys off the street?

Nobody starts off with projected 6-7 man rotations.

 

[Dalyn]

No, that part we are in agreement. I think several of us discussed this early this year. We needed more starting pitching options in AAA. There was one spot in the Gwinnett rotation in particular that went to Tom Corcoran at the start of the season. The season is so long and the attrition rate for pitchers is so high that you don't want to waste even one spot on the AAA rotation on someone who has very little chance of being able to help the big league team.

In retrospect, I wish David Hale had been given 3 or 4 more major league starts (some of which went to Garcia). He might yet play a significant role tonight.

Yeah. I would rather Hale be going tonight than Garcia.

 

[Dalyn]

Other than tommy john, Huddy's been pretty reliable in his career and for us. He's had a few DL stints but what starting pitcher hasn't?

What type of depth were you looking for? You can't just sign guys to the AAA club and have htem ready to come up when we need. Only guys who take those deals are guys like Kameron Loe or Freddy Garcia.

We started out with the projected rotation of

Hudson
Medlen
Minor
Teheran
Maholm

with the assurance that Beachy could come back later on, and that we had some guys in the minors who could give us a few spot starts llike we've done for years.

Wren knew it was time to take the diapers off Teheran after he got rid of Delgado.

What more depth were you thinking of other than signing old guys off the street?

Nobody starts off with projected 6-7 man rotations.

That is exactly my point. And PLENTY of competitive teams leave Spring Training with two or three options for the #5 spot. We had one pretty much all of Spring Training. Gilmartin never made a step in the right direction. We got lucky with Wood or this could've been a lot worse. As is, it will likely sink the team. Cost us HFA and a decent #4 for the playoffs.

 

[The Tariff King]

That is exactly my point. And PLENTY of competitive teams leave Spring Training with two or three options for the #5 spot. We had one pretty much all of Spring Training. Gilmartin never made a step in the right direction. We got lucky with Wood or this could've been a lot worse. As is, it will likely sink the team. Cost us HFA and a decent #4 for the playoffs.

Where are those two or three options going to? Our bullpen was clogged at the beginning of the year. They're going back to AAA.

What options would you have had? You're either going to sign the Kameron Loe's of the world looking to hang on to a team and designate him to AAA on standby, or you call up young pitchers to start from the minors like we've done the last 10 years.

Where is the depth going to go?

And still, no team starts out the year with 6-7 starters on the roster.

 

[jpx7]

While it should by no means vindicate Fredi, I really hope Freddy's string of recent luck continues, with a phenomenal performance backed by some thunderous PAs from Freddie.

 

[The Tariff King]

You can say we got lucky with Wood, and unlucky with Beachy.

You know why there are Freddy Garcias of the world? Because other teams use guys like that to fill out rotations. Guys like Buddy Carlyle, Mike Redman, Adam Bernero.

You can't realistically expect to have 6-7 solid starters, no team does that.

 

[Dalyn]

Where are those two or three options going to? Our bullpen was clogged at the beginning of the year. They're going back to AAA.

What options would you have had? You're either going to sign the Kameron Loe's of the world looking to hang on to a team and designate him to AAA on standby, or you call up young pitchers to start from the minors like we've done the last 10 years.

Where is the depth going to go?

And still, no team starts out the year with 6-7 starters on the roster.

On the 25-man? No. 40? Competitive teams absolutely do. All the time.

 

[Braves1976]

Personally, I don't our think depth was a major issue. I would argue Fredi preference for washed up veterans over our more solid yet younger depth hurt a lot more. If Fredi would've gave Hale or Poveda a shot instead of Loe. I really think we'd finished first overall (we lost it by a single game in the end). I also believe Obispo would've helped if given a shot when we needed it.

 

[Dalyn]

You can say we got lucky with Wood, and unlucky with Beachy.

You know why there are Freddy Garcias of the world? Because other teams use guys like that to fill out rotations. Guys like Buddy Carlyle, Mike Redman, Adam Bernero.

You can't realistically expect to have 6-7 solid starters, no team does that.

Man. Garcia isn't filling out any rotation. He is pitching the deciding game in the playoffs.

 

[drewdat]

Could have let Lohse play 2B until we needed him in the rotation.

 

[Dalyn]

Could have let Lohse play 2B until we needed him in the rotation.

That's true.

 

[The Tariff King]

On the 25-man? No. 40? Competitive teams absolutely do. All the time.

Show me.

I don't count long men like Cristian as starters either.

Depth was not an issue. Depth would be an issue if we had only 3 starters. We had 5 very capable starters at the start of the season plus Beachy coming back if needed. You sign guys like Freddy to linger in AAA until you have to call him up. You don't sign Kyle Lohse and ask him to sit at AAA until Huddy goes down. Wren was ready to let Teheran start, Minor who was durable last year, and a full year of Medlen with Maholm who had no injury issue last season.

 

[Dalyn]

Show me.

I don't count long men like Cristian as starters either.

Depth was not an issue. Depth would be an issue if we had only 3 starters. We had 5 very capable starters at the start of the season plus Beachy coming back if needed. You sign guys like Freddy to linger in AAA until you have to call him up. You don't sign Kyle Lohse and ask him to sit at AAA until Huddy goes down. Wren was ready to let Teheran start, Minor who was durable last year, and a full year of Medlen with Maholm who had no injury issue last season.

I've shown it several times already. No point in going over this again and again.

 

[weso1]

You can say we got lucky with Wood, and unlucky with Beachy.

It's always best to get lucky with Wood.

 

[nsacpi]

That is exactly my point. And PLENTY of competitive teams leave Spring Training with two or three options for the #5 spot. We had one pretty much all of Spring Training. Gilmartin never made a step in the right direction. We got lucky with Wood or this could've been a lot worse. As is, it will likely sink the team. Cost us HFA and a decent #4 for the playoffs.

I think you want all five of your starting pitchers in AAA to have some possibility of helping the big league team if the need arises. You need to assume injuries. A couple to the major league rotation. A couple to the AAA rotation.

The interesting thing is that a couple of the guys in the AAA rotation did have decent seasons. Hale and Poveda. In light of that, it is puzzling and disappointing that someone like Loe got called up and was even given a start. Both Hale and Poveda were pitching better than Loe in AAA. I won't argue against Freddy Garcia. By that point in the season he was a good pickup. He had pitched well for the Orioles in AAA, but not in the majors. And he gave us three good starts. I think the Loe callups were the real headscratchers among the pitching choices the front office made late in the season.

And going back early in the season, I still get angry thinking about the way Fredi ran Gearrin into the ground. Gearrin was the kind of guy I would have wanted around come October. But he was destroyed through overuse in May. Fredi does a lot of weird things with his pen. I think he is for the most part a decent manager. But when he comes to bullpen management, I think he leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[The Tariff King]

I've shown it several times already. No point in going over this again and again.

Ok, link me to those posts because I haven't seen it.

Depth was not an issue, if it was then we wouldn't be here in the playoffs.

We're a mid market team that has to rely on guys being healthy, we don't have the luxury of having 7-8 reliable starters. We had 5 projected, with Beachy coming back and then pick your scraps.

If we had money, we wouldn't have to pick up guys like Elliot Johnson off waiver.

 

[bravesnumberone]

I'm sorry, I just don't see Kershaw struggling much tonight. Knowing the Braves we'll do even worse against him.

In any event, we're going to have to beat him anyway.

And I don't care how tough he is on lefties, Jason Heyward and Freddie Freeman both are going to have to deliver tonight.

 

[Braves1976]

I think you want all five of your starting pitchers in AAA to have some possibility of helping the big league team if the need arises. You need to assume injuries. A couple to the major league rotation. A couple to the AAA rotation.

The interesting thing is that a couple of the guys in the AAA rotation did have decent seasons. Hale and Poveda. In light of that, it is puzzling and disappointing that someone like Loe got called up and was even given a start. Both Hale and Poveda were pitching better than Loe in AAA. I won't argue against Freddy Garcia. By that point in the season he was a good pickup. He had pitched well for the Orioles in AAA, but not in the majors. And he gave us three good starts. I think the Loe callups were the real headscratchers among the pitching choices the front office made late in the season.

And going back early in the season, I still get angry thinking about the way Fredi ran Gearrin into the ground. Gearrin was the kind of guy I would have wanted around come October. But he was destroyed through overuse in May. Fredi does a lot of weird things with his pen. I think he is for the most part a decent manager. But when he comes to bullpen management, I think he leaves a lot to be desired.

My thoughts exactly.