Old School Hall of Famers Talk Analytics

The Tariff King

The Tariff King

Trade War Deadline Winner
Staff member
Really good read if you're just a fan of baseball. A few quotes in here from some of our own in the Braves family (Sutton, Cox, Chipper)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...tch-why-mlb-greats-think-baseballs-in-trouble

There are some things I do agree with here. Banning shifts is dumb. When teams were doing this to hitters like Bonds and Giambi it was just "strategy" and nobody really complained. Chipper and Brett are right. Guys need to start going the other way and those shifts will start "shifting" back the other way. Sort of a similar conundrum to the NBA with the hack-a-shaq stuff. If big men were just making free throws then teams wouldn't be resorting to the hack-a-shaq cheese.

On the other hand, I found the Astros-Dodgers World Series to be one of the most exciting series I've ever seen. It also I think was like the longest average played game in history for a series. It doesn't help that FOX's commercial breaks were extended for the World Series.

It's ironic that these Hall of Famers are knocking the all or nothing (homerun or strikeout) dig. The owners are who helped build this homerun craze. Parks seem to be getting more hitter friendly. I'm still a little meh that our team, whose foundation was strong pitching, would suddenly make the new park more towards a hitters park (keep in mind i don't have the stats to back it up if it's true, just my own opinion). I loved the dimensions of Turner Field and felt it was the perfect size for a MLB Field. Not too pitcher friendly but not too hitter friendly.

I don't see how you could limit teams to using x amount of relievers per game. Gardenhire's tidbit made no sense. He says "the point of baseball is to get on base". He says if you don't put the ball in play you have no chance to get on base. Isn't that what walks are for? Are the old school guys against walks now? I love walks. Safest way to get on base + Easiest way to get the opposing starting pitcher out of the game quicker. @50PoundHead is this why you said Gardenhire was way in over his head in Minny?
 
Gardenhire was discussing strikeouts. I think he was saying that if you swing and don't put it in play, you can't get on base.
 
I didn't bother to read the article because it is undoubtedly full of the same old tired cliches we've heard the dinosaurs spout a thousand times.

Most of those cliches are wrong because the dinosaurs don't understand what they are talking about. They don't want to understand what they are talking about because their entire sense of themselves is anchored in being an athlete, not a nerd. Problem is that baseball is run by nerds because nerds are smart, and nerds decide which athletes get to be professional baseball players.

For example, the "strikeouts don't matter" line is one they constantly misunderstand...same with "three true outcomes".

When folks say "strike outs don't matter", they are actually saying strikeouts are almost exactly as valuable (invaluable) as any other out over the course of the season. Sure, in a particular PA, a ground out that scores a run is more valuable than a K. However, a K that avoids a GIDP ground out is more valuable than a grounder.

When all that is wrapped up and calculated, all outs are essentially equal in value, therefore, "strikeouts don't matter". The only thing that matters is how often a player avoids outs, and how much damage a player does when they don't make an out. All the new stats are good (and getting better), but the old OPS stat is still a pretty good and simple evaluation of a player's contributions at the plate.

The "three true outcomes" line means that the vast majority of all PA results are approximately worth a K (any out), a BB (singles and walks), or a HR. It doesn't mean the only things batters need to care about are BBs, K, and HRs...the dinosaurs just can't understand the actual meaning.
 
Guess you don't love baseball, since you didn't read it.

It's ok to actually read stuff you disagree with from time to time Enscheff. Yes, baseball is currently being run by nerds, but it's interesting to read the perspectives of the legends who helped create the game to get to where it is now.
 
Ronald Rump said:
Guess you don't love baseball, since you didn't read it.

It's ok to actually read stuff you disagree with from time to time Enscheff. Yes, baseball is currently being run by nerds, but it's interesting to read the perspectives of the legends who helped create the game to get to where it is now.
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I would rather be a guy that has actually played the game who has reached legend status than a legendary nerd that stares at spreadsheets all day.
 
VirginiaBrave said:
I would rather be a guy that has actually played the game who has reached legend status than a legendary nerd that stares at spreadsheets all day.
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that's not really the topic here, tho. yeah, i'd rather be a great baseball player than a great assistant GM.
but that great baseball player from the 70s is very unlikely to be a better talent evaluator than the current guys running baseball teams.
and their opinions on these things tend to be objectively wrong.
 
This article doesn't include the views of a recent Braves Hall of Fame broadcaster. Worthless.
 
Ronald Rump said:
There are some things I do agree with here. Banning shifts is dumb. When teams were doing this to hitters like Bonds and Giambi it was just "strategy" and nobody really complained. Chipper and Brett are right. Guys need to start going the other way and those shifts will start "shifting" back the other way. Sort of a similar conundrum to the NBA with the hack-a-shaq stuff. If big men were just making free throws then teams wouldn't be resorting to the hack-a-shaq cheese.
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**** Bonds and Giambi.

Ted Williams had a shift put on him in the 40s and 50s. And he basically said **** your shift and hit into it a lot harder.
 
VirginiaBrave said:
I would rather be a guy that has actually played the game who has reached legend status than a legendary nerd that stares at spreadsheets all day.
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And what are your chances of being a rich baseball player? Your chances of being a rich nerd, like me? What about a nerd who got the degree that made him rich while playing baseball in college?

Both are unattainable for you, so both aren't really worth discussing in your case.

Oh, rich nerds nowadays don't stare at speadsheets anymore...you're ignorant on all fronts...baseball and nerdism.
 
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bravesfanMatt said:
That is right. We stare in our neighbors window all day wondering how to get a girl like your stupid jock neighbor has.
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I think you'd be surprised how well a bit of money and a chiseled physique does with the ladies.

It's funny watching many of you call me a nerd when I was undoubtedly also more of a jock than almost all of you haha.
 
Enscheff said:
I think you'd be surprised how well a bit of money and a chiseled physique does with the ladies.

It's funny watching many of you call me a nerd when I was undoubtedly also more of a jock than almost all of you haha.
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i don't think anyone here is in high school anymore.
 
zitothebrave said:
**** Bonds and Giambi.

Ted Williams had a shift put on him in the 40s and 50s. And he basically said **** your shift and hit into it a lot harder.
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...and then realized it was indeed hurting him and tried to adjust. He has said it took as many as 15 points off his career average.
 
Enscheff said:
I think you'd be surprised how well a bit of money and a chiseled physique does with the ladies.

It's funny watching many of you call me a nerd when I was undoubtedly also more of a jock than almost all of you haha.
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Do not play cornhole with this man. I repeat: DO NOT play cornhole with this cool jock. He will totally freakin crush you, bro.
 
Super said:
i don't think anyone here is in high school anymore.
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What's also comical is nobody flinches when someone calls me a nerd, but the moment I remind you all that I played ball at a higher level than any of you...suddenly I'm the one acting like a high school kid lol.
 
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smootness said:
...and then realized it was indeed hurting him and tried to adjust. He has said it took as many as 15 points off his career average.
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Half true. He may have believed that after some time. But he didn't believe it at the time of writing the Science of Hitting. And he didn't believe it as a player. If a pitcher hit him inside with a fastball he wouldn't try and hit it the other way because of the shift. Because it's counterproductive. That being said, if someone threw something outside to him he wouldn't try to pull it either. Williams was a fantastic hitter.
 
Enscheff said:
I think you'd be surprised how well a bit of money and a chiseled physique does with the ladies.

It's funny watching many of you call me a nerd when I was undoubtedly also more of a jock than almost all of you haha.
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I am a nerd who has money. I would not call myself chiseled. More just average build. I didn’t think a lot of muscles fit my nerdom.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I am a nerd who has money. I would not call myself chiseled. More just average build. I didn’t think a lot of muscles fit my nerdom.
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Yeah, but you have the whole bank teller vibe going for you. I'm sure your hands are super soft, and some chicks really dig that.
 
Enscheff said:
And what are your chances of being a rich baseball player? Your chances of being a rich nerd, like me? What about a nerd who got the degree that made him rich while playing baseball in college?

Both are unattainable for you, so both aren't really worth discussing in your case.

Oh, rich nerds nowadays don't stare at speadsheets anymore...you're ignorant on all fronts...baseball and nerdism.
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Thank you lol
 
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