Global Events & Politics Überthread

Sounds like imminent domain here where the government tells you how much your going to sell them your land for. Then puts you in a cage and calls you the bad guy if you dont leave your property.
 
I see it as the Africans reclaiming what was taken from them.
A comparison would be Native Americans having the authority to reclaim Manhattan or the Great Plains.
Not a fan of imminent domain but I am sorta rooting for the native S African people.

Will be interesting watching this play out
 
Who among the South African government had anything taken from them? Which of the current South African farmers stole anything?
 
For every terrorist we kill we create 100 more. I really dont consider a person whose family member was killed as collateral damage from a US bomb that tries to kill Americans as the bad guy. Situatiom reversed we make movies about people who get revenge and call them heroes. It is one thing if they come here to attack us, but our troops in their country are fair game imo. If China/Russia invaded us they would call resistance fighters terorists too.
 
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...o-beijing-idUSKCN1L6058?utm_source=reddit.com



Ok, I am convinced China is going to take Taiwan. I think they recognize Trump as the weakest leader we will ever have and are going to strike when/if we get to impeachment hearings. Predicting that right now. Although I cant wait for Trumps desperate tweets while his presidency is going down in flames.


Has Trump ever gone on record saying he would defend Taiwan? Not that he has any credibility to begin with.
 
sturg33 said:
So sad what socialism does to countires.

Even sadder how many people wanna do it here
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Yeah, there’s certainly no difference between the political reality of a petrostate with half a century of unsuccessful experimentation with democracy and the USA.
 
Jaw said:
Who among the South African government had anything taken from them? Which of the current South African farmers stole anything?
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I’m not really sure that POV really holds up to scrutiny in the context of the history of apartheid SA. I can’t for the life of me understand thIs mentality. Redistribution of land was written into the post-apartheid constitution, for good reason. The particulars of its imposition are thorny and difficult, yes, but there’s overwhelming moral and legal weight behind the idea.
 
Julio3000 said:
Yeah, there’s certainly no difference between the political reality of a petrostate with half a century of unsuccessful experimentation with democracy and the USA.
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It was but just a few years ago when Bernie Sanders - the left's hero - claiming we needed to follow the Venezuelan model
 
Julio3000 said:
I’m not really sure that POV really holds up to scrutiny in the context of the history of apartheid SA. I can’t for the life of me understand thIs mentality. Redistribution of land was written into the post-apartheid constitution, for good reason. The particulars of its imposition are thorny and difficult, yes, but there’s overwhelming moral and legal weight behind the idea.
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I just disagree in general with the concept of treating people differently because of the color of their skin. I can't understand the mentality of those that condone it, regardless of the race of the people on the receiving end of the racism.
 
Jaw said:
I just disagree in general with the concept of treating people differently because of the color of their skin. I can't understand the mentality of those that condone it, regardless of the race of the people on the receiving end of the racism.
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Seems to be a real desire to even the score
 
I have said it before and I will say it again, Venezuela's problems are not purely the fault of socialisim. Its also due to the leaders kindergarten level understanding of basic economics. You could say its not socialisims fault that they failed to diversify the economy in the good times but its just not a coincidence that the people responsible are hardcore socialists.




Just about every social program sounds good on face value. If they actually delivered on their promise in any kind of efficent fashion we would be all for them. By and large government programs dont deliver on their promise efficently. It sounds mean but we have to let some people fail. We are playing with fire when we subsidize bad choices in life and the more handouts we give the more will be demanded. It really comes down to the old saying give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.
 
Jaw said:
I just disagree in general with the concept of treating people differently because of the color of their skin. I can't understand the mentality of those that condone it, regardless of the race of the people on the receiving end of the racism.
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That’s an admirable sentiment, but it means accepting a situation in which, on the heels of a typical colonialist screwing-over, 80-odd percent of the population was precluded from owning land outside of tiny set-asides, and was systematically oppressed and discriminated against for the better part of a century. When that system was overturned, a tiny sliver of the population owned 90% of the land. Your position is that this state of affairs should continue, with no attempt at restorative justice. I agree that those attempts could be fraught with difficulty. But, damn, is the morally and legally acceptable answer after decades of vicious race-based repression and really to just say “eh, well, we don’t want to step on any toes here”?
 
The government has been turning their heads while the farm owners were attacked, robbed, tortured, and killed.

The government has said they are "going to cut the throat of whiteness."

The government is now forcing a sell at one tenth of value.

This is beyond being fraught with difficulties. This is vengeance.
 
Jaw said:
The government has been turning their heads while the farm owners were attacked, robbed, tortured, and killed.

The government has said they are "going to cut the throat of whiteness."

The government is now forcing a sell at one tenth of value.

This is beyond being fraught with difficulties. This is vengeance.
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so does it matter how the great grandparents of those white farmers acquired the land...I'm not in favor of any sort of violent campaign against them but I think the issue of ownership of that land is not so clear cut

on a personal note my father was South African...i have some half-siblings who occupy (and I choose this word with care) some valuable property there...i did talk to a lawyer years ago about claiming my "share" but decided it was blood money that i didn't want anything to do with
 
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nsacpi said:
so does it matter how the great grandparents of those white farmers acquired the land...I'm not in favor of any sort of violent campaign against them but I think the issue of ownership of that land is not so clear cut

on a personal note my father was South African...i have some half-siblings who occupy (and I choose this word with care) some valuable property there...i did talk to a lawyer years ago about claiming my "share" but decided it was blood money that i didn't want anything to do with
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Should we penalize the descendants of Confederate soldiers?
How about the descendants of US soldiers who fought in the Indian Wars?
Should we confiscate all land that used to belong to Native Americans and give it back?
Should we ship all African Americans back to Africa?
Should we fine all British citizens and send the proceeds to India?
Should we remove everyone from Hawaii except those who are native Hawaiian descendants?
Should England be returned to the Vikings? Or to the Romans? The Celts?

At some point we need to move on from where history has placed us. I know it's cool and PC to stick it to whitey right now, but that doesn't make it any less hypocritical. By all means, punish people who do wrong, but don't punish those whose only "crime" is who their ancestors were.
 
Jaw said:
Should we penalize the descendants of Confederate soldiers?
How about the descendants of US soldiers who fought in the Indian Wars?
Should we confiscate all land that used to belong to Native Americans and give it back?
Should we ship all African Americans back to Africa?
Should we fine all British citizens and send the proceeds to India?
Should we remove everyone from Hawaii except those who are native Hawaiian descendants?
Should England be returned to the Vikings? Or to the Romans? The Celts?

At some point we need to move on from where history has placed us. I know it's cool and PC to stick it to whitey right now, but that doesn't make it any less hypocritical. By all means, punish people who do wrong, but don't punish those whose only "crime" is who their ancestors were.
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As a general principle I think the further back these expropriations go the less feasible it is to reverse them. So recency matters.

A second general principle is that compensation and redress is preferable to an apology where possible. An apology is good, but where possible do more.

These are thorny matters. I think with some goodwill we can do more than throw up our hands and say it all happened long ago and nothing can be done about it.

But on returning England to the Vikings or Celts or Romans, I think you are misreading history!
 
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