Tapate50
Well-known member
Should have already been done and completed , no?
Legal/scotus thread
- Thread starter cajunrevenge
- Start date
Should have already been done and completed , no?
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
absolutely...but the FBI can only do this if the White House directs it to conduct such an investigation...and the White House in turn is waiting for a request from the Senate Judiciary Committee
striker42
Well-known member
Guys, an FBI investigation is pointless. This is something that happened 36 years ago. The woman involved is admittedly sketchy on details. The people she can name have all given sworn statements that they have no memory of any of the events she described. Gathering any useful evidence on a case like this is pretty much impossible and, honestly, every Democrat who screamed about an FBI investigation yesterday knew it was useless.
So why are the Dems asking for an investigation? A couple reasons. The biggest reason is they want to stall. Stalling this gives them a big issue to rile up their base in the election. Additionally, the Democrats still have hopes of retaking the Senate in November (though they wouldn't come into power until January). If they can delay the Kavanaugh vote for another 6 weeks, it would not give the Republicans much time to ram though a candidate if Kavanaugh fails. The Dems, knowing the investigation will turn up nothing, know that these accusations will still hang over Kavanaugh's head after the investigation. If they can delay the vote, win back the senate, and defeat Kavanaugh in the lame duck session, there probably wouldn't be enough time for another candidate and the Dems would then hold that seat open for 2 years.
It's a long shot for all that to happen but it's honestly the Democrat's best chance to keep the court from swinging to the right.
The second reason they demand an FBI investigation is optics. They want to put the Republicans and Kavanaugh between a rock and a hard place. If the Republicans refuse an FBI investigation, they'll look (to gullible people) like they're trying to cover something up. If they give into the investigation, they play into the Democrat's game. With Kavanaugh it's even more clear. If he came out and demanded an FBI investigation (something I doubt he fears), he alienates Republicans who might just decide to kill his nomination now. If he says there shouldn't be an investigation, it looks like he's hiding something.
It's a fairly masterful job by the Democrats.
The Republicans are not going to play ball though. They're going to push ahead with the vote whether Kavanaugh will be confirmed or not. The Republicans know they have to resolve Kavanaugh quickly in order to ensure they have a second chance if Kavanaugh isn't confirmed. If they keep the Senate in November then they have all the time in the world but they can't rely on that at this point.
So why are the Dems asking for an investigation? A couple reasons. The biggest reason is they want to stall. Stalling this gives them a big issue to rile up their base in the election. Additionally, the Democrats still have hopes of retaking the Senate in November (though they wouldn't come into power until January). If they can delay the Kavanaugh vote for another 6 weeks, it would not give the Republicans much time to ram though a candidate if Kavanaugh fails. The Dems, knowing the investigation will turn up nothing, know that these accusations will still hang over Kavanaugh's head after the investigation. If they can delay the vote, win back the senate, and defeat Kavanaugh in the lame duck session, there probably wouldn't be enough time for another candidate and the Dems would then hold that seat open for 2 years.
It's a long shot for all that to happen but it's honestly the Democrat's best chance to keep the court from swinging to the right.
The second reason they demand an FBI investigation is optics. They want to put the Republicans and Kavanaugh between a rock and a hard place. If the Republicans refuse an FBI investigation, they'll look (to gullible people) like they're trying to cover something up. If they give into the investigation, they play into the Democrat's game. With Kavanaugh it's even more clear. If he came out and demanded an FBI investigation (something I doubt he fears), he alienates Republicans who might just decide to kill his nomination now. If he says there shouldn't be an investigation, it looks like he's hiding something.
It's a fairly masterful job by the Democrats.
The Republicans are not going to play ball though. They're going to push ahead with the vote whether Kavanaugh will be confirmed or not. The Republicans know they have to resolve Kavanaugh quickly in order to ensure they have a second chance if Kavanaugh isn't confirmed. If they keep the Senate in November then they have all the time in the world but they can't rely on that at this point.
Tapate50
Well-known member
That could have been done and completed by now if the accusations weren't hidden away until the last minute. They were notified in plenty of time that this could be an issue. That's the point this turned to a political circus instead of wanting to find out the truth to see if BK could be worthy of an appt.
I agree with whoever said Judge hiding out doesn't look good. Not in the least.
Tapate50
Well-known member
I agree with you that BK doesn't fear an FBI investigation. He's been vetted (thoroughly) 6 times. It isn't likely they dig up more than he said she said, but hey whatever floats our boat. If that's what "legitimizes" this thing then go ahead, but its political posturing as it should have been ordered back in July.
I believe Ford may have more to lose if the FBI gets hold of her 4 witnesses that don't corroborate her story. It could fold this whole thing up I guess?
I feel bad for Ford. She's been put through the ringer and its apparent shes had damage done in her past.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
the ABA, Dershowitz, and a Jesuit organization that endorsed Kavanaugh have all called for a delay and investigation...I dont think they are motivated by partisan considerations...it is the sensible thing to do
striker42
Well-known member
Dershowitz might be motivated by his partisan views of the law. Not sure with him.
As for organizations, it's all about appearances. I can tell you, as an attorney, that one of the chief concerns of the ABA is making the legal profession look good. So I have no doubt that's the motivation for the ABA. I can't speak to the Jesuit thing as I've not looked into them. My suspicion is that it has to do with fundraising though.
Does anyone legitimately believe the FBI would unearth anything new? If there was an investigation and it came back saying "There's no evidence corroborating Dr. Ford's statement and all the named witnesses deny any knowledge of the events," would the Dems back off of the accusations?
It's a political game at this point. If this accusation came to light in July there would have been an investigation as there would have been time to burn and nothing to lose. The Dems played it smart. They held this card back and played it at the best possible time. They've had a difficult hand to play being in the minority in the Senate but they've played their hand well to get things as close as they are.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
This is all entirely correct and why dropping Kavanaugh or an FBI investigation are nonstarters based on completely uncorroborated and credibly disputed claims. The issues striker presented in this post need to be resolved before an FBI investigation should even be considered.
Not when it involves politics and/or law, ironically.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
it's also possible indeed likely that the ABA, Dershowitz and the Jesuit group are interested in seeing sound procedures applied to this situation...I dont they they are motivated by partisan or sel-interested considerations in advocating for a pause and investigation...it is simply the sensible thing to do
I think I’ve identified a much clearer example of petulance in this performance than in the recent performance of your latest amoral punching bag.
I wish I could recall the briefing room discussion enough to defend myself. Likewise the porn/masturbation thing that Super somehow found relevant enough to reintroduce yesterday. My guess is that there is a degree of exonerating nuance that’s being left out - as is often the case when straw men are propped up.
I’m general, I’ve never gravitated to “my morals are sounder than yours” as the crux of an argument because it’s one that I’ll never win. I know that you recognize that as well. There are other ways ... in absence of a jury.
striker42
Well-known member
I get the ABA Newsletter every month. Their concern is one of optics. I'm fairly confident in saying that.
Sadly we are past the point where sensible things can be done. The sensible thing would have been for Feinstein to turn this over the FBI in July. She sat on it to release it at the point where she could reap the most political benefit (if you think she sat on it out of concern for the woman's privacy, you give politicians far too much credit). It's not about sensible choices at this point. It's about politically expedient choices. In fact, it's pretty much always been about politically expedient choices.
striker42
Well-known member
Tribal politics. If someone belongs to your tribe, you dismiss issues even when they are staring you in the face.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
I agree with Hatch for once. It's time to end the circus. Ram his ass through and check out what happens when the voters speak.
the fact he's lied repeatedly, even about relatively small things, should be a big red flag. should be.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Disagree.
I trust you mean something with this, but it is entirely unclear what that is.