Market for Catchers

BravesCountry1 said:
From MLBTR chat today with Steve Adams...

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If Grandal really has lost some earning potential based off his postseason results, then we should be all over that. Getting Grandal for less than 70ish million would be a coup for us.
 
Enscheff said:
I'm going to guess that no competent team is going to let a 34 poor postseason PAs influence their plans at the catcher position.
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Cool... sure seemed to be a head thing to me just watching him though. Discount it if you want... I don't care
 
Even though I think the price for Grandal and Realmuto is likely to be higher than what I would want to pay, there is no harm in checking in on the price. And there is a price at which I would have interest in these guys.

In the case of Grandal if the price dropped to 3 years and an AAV of 14M, I would be interested.

In the case of Realmuto, I would offer them a choice of two of Wentz/Muller/Allard.

In neither case would I expect that to be a winning bid. But you never know.

I think the Plan A for catcher should be one of Maldonado/Suzuki/McCann/Lucroy to work as a tandem with Flowers. And keep an eye on Cervelli, whether in the off-season or mid-season as Plan B.

With this sort of approach, we can be patient and benefit from the tendency of free agent prices to drop as spring training nears.
 
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I’d make one of Rosario, Peralta, or Marte a top priority and then one of Grandal and Realmuto my 2nd. Adding 2 of those guys would make our offense very strong going into spring training.
 
Dbacks might be a place where we can do some one-stop shopping. Peralta and Lamb. Offer Touki and Wentz. See what happens.
 
When looking at the costs to acquire realmuto and Grandal I'd almost rather resign Zuk, trade Ender, put Acuna in CF for a year, and get 2 corner OF's to upgrade the offense with one being a 1 year rental.
 
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The Atlanta #Braves last night acquired C Raffy Lopez from the San Diego Padres in exchange for cash considerations. The club’s 40-man roster now stands at 36.


BOOM! Got our guy!
 
nsacpi said:
Even though I think the price for Grandal and Realmuto is likely to be higher than what I would want to pay, there is no harm in checking in on the price. And there is a price at which I would have interest in these guys.

In the case of Grandal if the price dropped to 3 years and an AAV of 14M, I would be interested.

In the case of Realmuto, I would offer them a choice of two of Wentz/Muller/Allard.

In neither case would I expect that to be a winning bid. But you never know.

I think the Plan A for catcher should be one of Maldonado/Suzuki/McCann/Lucroy to work as a tandem with Flowers. And keep an eye on Cervelli, whether in the off-season or mid-season as Plan B.

With this sort of approach, we can be patient and benefit from the tendency of free agent prices to drop as spring training nears.
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Those are some pretty low ball offers, but it would be sweet to get a deal like that.

What about Ramos? To me he is sort of the consolation prize...better defender than JT and a bit less offense than Grandal.

I'd also like to see some research on how much catchers improve their framing when going to teams with better coaching/analytics. A case could be made that Realmuto only sucks at framing because the Marlins suck at knowing baseball facts.
 
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Enscheff said:
Those are some pretty low ball offers, but it would be sweet to get a deal like that.

What about Ramos? To me he is sort of the consolation prize...better defender than JT and a bit less offense than Grandal.
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I think Ramos is the most realistic target. Just worry about those knees
 
Enscheff said:
Those are some pretty low ball offers, but it would be sweet to get a deal like that.

What about Ramos? To me he is sort of the consolation prize...better defender than JT and a bit less offense than Grandal.

I'd also like to see some research on how much catchers improve their framing when going to teams with better coaching/analytics. A case could be made that Realmuto only sucks at framing because the Marlins suck at knowing baseball facts.
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Ramos is hard to peg due to injury history. I wouldn't want to go more than 2 years with him. 2 years AAV of 12M is what I would offer him. Another low ball offer.
 
nsacpi said:
Ramos is hard to peg due to injury history. I wouldn't want to go more than 2 years with him. 2 years AAV of 12M is what I would offer him. Another low ball offer.
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Prospectus has Ramos and Realmuto as roughly comparable framers with Realmuto being better overall defender by virtue of advantages elsewhere.

their offense is perhaps comparable though you might say Realmuto is better bet to perform.

I've seen Ramos as the possible target all along. Knees make it easier to sit him, no comp pick, ought to be a shorter duration contract and less money than Grandal.

Unfortunately, I think this will also occur to Washington, Philly, and the rest of the catcher market as well. He has the feel of the guy who everyone sees as the cheaper option who ends up being pricy.
 
Can any of those dudes throw out a runner for Christ sakes? Teams not running on us at will would likely help in some regard.
 
Tapate50 said:
Can any of those dudes throw out a runner for Christ sakes? Teams not running on us at will would likely help in some regard.
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Fans generally over rate blocking and throwing skills by quite a bit.

According to BP, the best blocking catcher saved his team 3.8 runs. The worst blocking catcher cost his team 4.6 runs. That's a total swing of 8.4 runs.

The best throwing catcher saved his team 1.1 runs. The worst throwing catcher cost his team 0.8 runs. That's a total swing of 1.9 runs.

The best framer gained his team 18.3 runs. The worst framing catcher cost his team 17.5 runs. That's a total swing of 35.8 runs.

Framing is far and away the most important skill for a catcher to have, assuming he meets to minimum MLB standard in blocking/throwing. It is roughly 4x as important as blocking, and 18x as important as throwing.
 
Enscheff said:
Those are some pretty low ball offers, but it would be sweet to get a deal like that.

What about Ramos? To me he is sort of the consolation prize...better defender than JT and a bit less offense than Grandal.

I'd also like to see some research on how much catchers improve their framing when going to teams with better coaching/analytics. A case could be made that Realmuto only sucks at framing because the Marlins suck at knowing baseball facts.
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I'm also interested in why Ramos hasn't been mentioned much in these discussions. I, for one, would love to have him if we miss out on Grandal or Realmuto. I also think he could be had far more cheaply. Maybe something in the 2/22 range or something like that.
 
Make that three for Ramos as well. Splitting time with Flo would help him stay healthy hopefully. At least less wear and tear. He is a hell of a plan B
 
The thing that I like most about Ramos is that if we signed him and traded for our corner outfielder, we could still have a decent amount of money to build our depth up with. I don't expect Ramos to cost more than the 2/12 that nsacpi laid out. Nsacpi and I have been all over adding a utility bench option that hits righties well. If we had a Ramos/Peralta offseason then we could add that and still have some money left over to play around with. Maybe for that bullpen arm that everyone seems to want.
 
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