John Sickels braves top 20

cajunrevenge said:
Allard would be at the top of my list to trade too. Sickels has actually seen him pitch many times and talks to real scouts. He was higher on guys like Medlen and Beachy who were good till they got hurt than anyone.
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I'm not sure just how much those "real scouts" talk to him anymore than i know how often he's actually seen these kids in person. I'm not about to call him an "idiot" mainly because of that - for all I know, he may well see them in person as often as The Blackjack Dealer does. I'm sure they talk to the same guys all the time at the very least.

Prospect guys are prospect guys, take them all with a grain of salt - Keith Law is still convinced Riley can't hit a fastball.
 
clvclv said:
I'm not sure just how much those "real scouts" talk to him anymore than i know how often he's actually seen these kids in person. I'm not about to call him an "idiot" mainly because of that - for all I know, he may well see them in person as often as The Blackjack Dealer does. I'm sure they talk to the same guys all the time at the very least.

Prospect guys are prospect guys, take them all with a grain of salt - Keith Law is still convinced Riley can't hit a fastball.
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I think it’s safe to say the guy wouldn’t last over 20 years in the prospect game if he didn’t know what he was doing and had a lot of sources.
 
I'm not going to discredit Sickels because of his opinion of Allard. But most scouts, the eye test, and mlb pitch data have painted a good picture of his ability and it's not good.
 
Sickels used to work for Baseball America so he is a scouting oriented guy. I get that that is not for some people but when those people discount the guy for not subscribing to their personal prospect philosophy and tells other people to ignore him thats retarded. None of these prospecting sites are perfect. Didnt fangraphs put Ryan Weber as our top prospect a few years ago and say there wasnt much seperating him from Dalls Keuchel? Sickels has been doing this over 20 years and I am confident you will never find anything that bad.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Sickels used to work for Baseball America so he is a scouting oriented guy. I get that that is not for some people but when those people discount the guy for not subscribing to their personal prospect philosophy and tells other people to ignore him thats retarded. None of these prospecting sites are perfect. Didnt fangraphs put Ryan Weber as our top prospect a few years ago and say there wasnt much seperating him from Dalls Keuchel? Sickels has been doing this over 20 years and I am confident you will never find anything that bad.
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that was one particular guy at fangraphs. not every single person there is good and reliable. and that was called out at the time for being absurd. which it was, and is somehow worse today, in hindsight.

sickels doesn't even give a real reason ("intuition," tf?) for having allard there. that right there makes it, and therefore him, worth heavily questioning.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Sickels used to work for Baseball America so he is a scouting oriented guy. I get that that is not for some people but when those people discount the guy for not subscribing to their personal prospect philosophy and tells other people to ignore him thats retarded. None of these prospecting sites are perfect. Didnt fangraphs put Ryan Weber as our top prospect a few years ago and say there wasnt much seperating him from Dalls Keuchel? Sickels has been doing this over 20 years and I am confident you will never find anything that bad.
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The guy who wrote that is no longer in the prospect writing game.

I said Longenhagen is the best, and he is. Kiley is also good despite his obvious Braves bias due to knowing a lot of those prospects.

Certain opinions demonstrate an ignorance that completely disqualifies a person from being considered an expert on a topic. Stating you like Allard for reasons you can explain is one of those statements.
 
Enscheff said:
The guy who wrote that is no longer in the prospect writing game.

I said Longenhagen is the best, and he is. Kiley is also good despite his obvious Braves bias due to knowing a lot of those prospects.

Certain opinions demonstrate an ignorance that completely disqualifies a person from being considered an expert on a topic. Stating you like Allard for reasons you can explain is one of those statements.
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Period. So just stop. Every one of you. I have ordained it.

Oh, BTW, your taxes are lower, the economy is the bestest, there are 14,000 Al Qaeda soldiers walking through Mexico, and I'm the greatest and will never cede the Office until you proclaim me King.

Now go away until I tweet from the *hitter tomorrow morning around 3 AM when I've run out of porn - or porn stars.
 
clvclv said:
Period. So just stop. Every one of you. I have ordained it.

Oh, BTW, your taxes are lower, the economy is the bestest, there are 14,000 Al Qaeda soldiers walking through Mexico, and I'm the greatest and will never cede the Office until you proclaim me King.

Now go away until I tweet from the *hitter tomorrow morning around 3 AM when I've run out of porn - or porn stars.
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It must really suck to always be wrong...
 
Enscheff said:
The guy who wrote that is no longer in the prospect writing game.

I said Longenhagen is the best, and he is. Kiley is also good despite his obvious Braves bias due to knowing a lot of those prospects.

Certain opinions demonstrate an ignorance that completely disqualifies a person from being considered an expert on a topic. Stating you like Allard for reasons you can explain is one of those statements.
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I think you take this ranking buisness a bit too seriously. The value of what Sickels does are the scouting reports or blurbs he puts out about the prospect. He freely admits he is thinks he may be overrating him. If you want to evaluate him purely based on that then lets atleast let it play out. Baseball is a funny sport.
 
Enscheff said:
The guy who wrote that is no longer in the prospect writing game.

I said Longenhagen is the best, and he is. Kiley is also good despite his obvious Braves bias due to knowing a lot of those prospects.

Certain opinions demonstrate an ignorance that completely disqualifies a person from being considered an expert on a topic. Stating you like Allard for reasons you can explain is one of those statements.
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Did you mean "can" or "can't" here? If it's "can't," I tend to agree. Allard may have hit his peak and, if so, he's probably not slated for major league success. I'm willing to wait on him, but his performance at the major league level last season was dismal (and that's putting it kindly). I still see guys with sub-par fastballs like Kyle Hendricks having a level of success, but guys like that are extremely rare and never dominant in this era.
 
50PoundHead said:
Did you mean "can" or "can't" here? If it's "can't," I tend to agree. Allard may have hit his peak and, if so, he's probably not slated for major league success. I'm willing to wait on him, but his performance at the major league level last season was dismal (and that's putting it kindly). I still see guys with sub-par fastballs like Kyle Hendricks having a level of success, but guys like that are extremely rare and never dominant in this era.
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Definitely meant can't haha.

It's one thing to say "I think Allard can get healthy, complete an off season strength training program, and add 3-4 mph because he's an athletic kid who isn't using his lower half efficiently".

It's quite the other to say, "I know everything everyone says, and everything all the data shows suggests he won't be good, but I like him and can't explain why".

How someone can make statements like the latter and still be taken seriously is beyond me.
 
Like I said in an earlier post, he at times has gone against the mainstream because of "feel and intuition" on a player. Sometimes he's right and sometimes he's wrong. The most recent case where he went against mainstream on a player because he thought he was tools and not skills, he was right (Christian Bethancourt). The most recent case where he went against mainstream because he loved his feel and intuition and thought he was a massively underrated prospect (this should give away that it's La Stella), he was wrong (Tommy La Stella). Tommy La Stella is a fine major league bench player, but he did not end up being what Sickels thought he was.

And I think he'll probably be wrong on Allard, but who knows, he's a 21 year old and he has plenty of time. Maybe he ends up having a 10+ year career as a legit number four.
 
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GeorgiaGirl said:
Like I said in an earlier post, he at times has gone against the mainstream because of "feel and intuition" on a player. Sometimes he's right and sometimes he's wrong. The most recent case where he went against mainstream on a player because he thought he was tools and not skills, he was right (Christian Bethancourt). The most recent case where he went against mainstream because he loved his feel and intuition and thought he was a massively underrated prospect (this should give away that it's La Stella), he was wrong (Tommy La Stella). Tommy La Stella is a fine major league bench player, but he did not end up being what Sickels thought he was.

And I think he'll probably be wrong on Allard, but who knows, he's a 21 year old and he has plenty of time. Maybe he ends up having a 10+ year career as a legit number four.
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Whether he's right or wrong isn't the issue. Prospects fail all the time, and even the best professional scouts miss on players all the time.

The issue is with his thought process, if you can even call it that. Saying "I like him and can't explain why", is about as bad as analysis gets. It's the same thing as cheering for a team because you like the color of their jersey. Perfectly acceptable, but it means that person isn't an expert.
 
GeorgiaGirl said:
Like I said in an earlier post, he at times has gone against the mainstream because of "feel and intuition" on a player. Sometimes he's right and sometimes he's wrong. The most recent case where he went against mainstream on a player because he thought he was tools and not skills, he was right (Christian Bethancourt). The most recent case where he went against mainstream because he loved his feel and intuition and thought he was a massively underrated prospect (this should give away that it's La Stella), he was wrong (Tommy La Stella). Tommy La Stella is a fine major league bench player, but he did not end up being what Sickels thought he was.

And I think he'll probably be wrong on Allard, but who knows, he's a 21 year old and he has plenty of time. Maybe he ends up having a 10+ year career as a legit number four.
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Just stop reading anyone until The Blackjack Dealer has his say.
 
Allard showed pretty much nothing in his stint.

I'm OK with prospects struggling but he didn't look to have much of any potential to get better
 
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