2018 Offseason And Targets

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zbhargrove said:
Oh I don't know... maybe because he has MVP potential or the 3rd base FA pool next year is stacked?
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Do I have to spell everything out for you?

OK...

If they thought Camargo was the long term guy at 3B (the part you left out of your bold) then why Donaldson in the first place. As in: If the Braves thought Camargo was the long term answer at 3B, why not let him and his 3.7bWar play everyday, and use the money spent on Donaldson to fix other holes? Let's say Donaldson is a 5 bWar guy in 2019. Is that 1.3 bWar difference between Donaldson and Camargo worth having Muk in RF?

There are several answers, most likely being a. They don't think Camargo is likely to repeat (and as a rider to that thought then 2020 and beyond for 3B becomes an issue) b. they have plenty of money to fix CoF (this doesn't appear to be the case but hey) c. they are willing to trade heavily from prospect capital to bring in a high end low cost option like Haniger d. the ownership is starving the franchise of operating capital and the FO is putting a new paint job and new tires on a 72 Pinto and calling it a day
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Do I have to spell everything out for you?

OK...

If they thought Camargo was the long term guy at 3B (the part you left out of your bold) then why Donaldson in the first place. As in: If the Braves thought Camargo was the long term answer at 3B, why not let him and his 3.7bWar play everyday, and use the money spent on Donaldson to fix other holes? Let's say Donaldson is a 5 bWar guy in 2019. Is that 1.3 bWar difference between Donaldson and Camargo worth having Muk in RF?

There are several answers, most likely being a. They don't think Camargo is likely to repeat (and as a rider to that thought then 2020 and beyond for 3B becomes an issue) b. they have plenty of money to fix CoF (this doesn't appear to be the case but hey) c. they are willing to trade heavily from prospect capital to bring in a high end low cost option like Haniger d. the ownership is starving the franchise of operating capital and the FO is putting a new paint job and new tires on a 72 Pinto and calling it a day
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Actually the first part of my or addressed that specifically... JD is an MVP candidate and we were in a unique position to get him on a one year contract after winning our division last year... Camargo could be a long term solution at 3rd to the FO if they planned on filling that MVP caliber spot in the lineup next year with an OFer... Camargo is very good, but clearly not the MVP type of candidate that JD is... so, do I have to spell everything to you?

If you want to play the what if game (which is pointless) then what if he puts up an fWAR of 8.7 or 7.6? You know, the fWARs he put up his last two full healthy years he played

As is, Camargo is probably not the long term answer... he's a very good super utility player and that doesn't mean the FO didn't buy into his year last year, it just means he likely has more value as a Marwin Gonzalez or Javy Baez/Chris Taylor type which have been cornerstones on championship teams when there are legit lineup changing MVP superstars available at 3rd this year and next year. Riley is expendable easily.
 
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zbhargrove said:
Actually the first part of my or addressed that specifically... JD is an MVP candidate and we were in a unique position to get him on a one year contract after winning our division last year... Camargo could be a long term solution at 3rd to the FO if they planned on filling that MVP caliber spot in the lineup next year with an OFer... Camargo is very good, but clearly not the MVP type of candidate that JD is... so, do I have to spell everything to you?

If you want to play the what if game (which is pointless) then what if he puts up an fWAR of 8.7 or 7.6? You know, the fWARs he put up his last two full healthy years he played

As is, Camargo is probably not the long term answer... he's a very good super utility player and that doesn't mean the FO didn't buy into his year last year, it just means he likely has more value as a Marwin Gonzalez or Javy Baez/Chris Taylor type which have been cornerstones on championship teams when there are legit lineup changing MVP superstars available at 3rd this year and next year. Riley is expendable easily.
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Cubs were weren't sure how good Baez was gonna be a year ago.
 
Enscheff said:
The same team with a downgrade at catcher and cOF, canceling out most or all of the JD upgrade. JD also comes with some significant injury risk.

This course of action is betting on improvements to come organically from young players improving. That’s a pretty good bet for this talented roster, but many expected improvements from FAs, trades and organic growth.

AA has to have something up his sleeve, and it’s probably one of JTR or Haniger coupled with Gray.
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Yes, I agree on paper they will likely be worse at C and cOF over last season.

On the other hand, if you take 2018 out of the equation McCann and Suzuki profile roughly the same 2015-2017. You can't really do that, but it's possibly McCann with health could return to old man McCann norms.

Markakis isn't likely to repeat 2.5 WAR, but I am not as bearish on him repeating more of it than the folks who didn't think 2018 was possible. It's possible there some changed approach in there and the peripherals beyond looking tired didn't really dramatically shift other than look a little unlucky in the second half. But I'm not taking bets on that and he could easily show up in spring training and look like toast. He's the age where it happens, but nothing about last season really looked like he was there.

.....

I preferred upgrading cOF. I'm a little more ambivalent about major upgrades at catcher, but sure McCann was on my list of Braves homer, roll-my-eyes, acquisition wishes. Not what I would have preferred at all.

But yes, internal improvement could make a big difference and Donaldson is no joke acquisition. I think the risk is perhaps a bit overblown, but he's likely to miss some games. Luckily they have a perfect backup.

I can sort of see a rationale behind keeping the powder dry and waiting for some teams to figure out they aren't contenders.

The Pirates alone could make the Braves whole once they figure out they have no prayer.

So, figuring out where they are in the early season and making moves accordingly and being flexible to sell if the East ends up being really good isn't the worst plan for Atlanta. Not very exciting, but probably faithful stewardship.
 
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msstate7 said:
I'm not opposed to this either. I'd give nick a lot more days off though and try to get Duvall going
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Duvall and Camargo or even someone like Jose Martinez or Frazier. I don't think it would be that bad and I think you could get him cheap enough to where it isn't a big risk if he reverts to previous three year form.
 
After seeing the Dodgers move guys around the diamond, do you think AA would play JTR in LF as well as catcher?

It would allow you to keep 3 catchers and use Flowers or Mac in a pinch hitting role regularly.
 
Here's a MLB TR article about Jose Martinez. Apparently he used to be in our org. Had no idea. Mentions his terrible D and good offense. Lists the Rays, Dodgers, Royals, Tigers and White Sox as potential destinations if they trade him
 
Freshmaker said:
Here's a MLB TR article about Jose Martinez. Apparently he used to be in our org. Had no idea. Mentions his terrible D and good offense. Lists the Rays, Dodgers, Royals, Tigers and White Sox as potential destinations if they trade him
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He was actually with us two different times, he left via free agency one year but came back later before moving on again.
 
I still think aa is going to do a big move and it’s going to be for a name not mentioned in the press.

We need a controlled cof who we can afford. We have some 40 man and starter spot issues in milb.

He has so many options because of the versatility of acuna and Albies that it takes time.

Watch it be something crazy like polanco and archer for Riley Wright newk Tehran mueller and jenista
 
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Chico said:
After seeing the Dodgers move guys around the diamond, do you think AA would play JTR in LF as well as catcher?

It would allow you to keep 3 catchers and use Flowers or Mac in a pinch hitting role regularly.
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I definitely think AA could be looking at JTR as a part time LF option. I’ve been wondering if JTR has any experience in any place other than C and 1st.

Pretty sure JTR would be better than Gattis in LF. For that matter he might be better than Kemp.
 
JxnMissFan said:
I definitely think AA could be looking at JTR as a part time LF option. I’ve been wondering if JTR has any experience in any place other than C and 1st.

Pretty sure JTR would be better than Gattis in LF. For that matter he might be better than Kemp.
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JTR is a very good athlete that could probably play LF just fine, though that doesn't mean he'll be used there. Remember, JTR has a sprint speed of 28.6 which is not what you'd expect from a catcher at all.
 
Freshmaker said:
Wonder how much of Heyward's contract the Cubs would have to pay for us to consider taking him back
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May have finally found the only way it's worth taking him back. If The Cubs want to get Harper and Bryant together so desperately...

Julio for Heyward and Happ



If you then cut Duvall loose, that would bring the payroll in at ~ $122 million and allow AA to pull the trigger on the Realmuto trade, leaving you with...

Acuna, Albies, Freeman, Donaldson, Realmuto, Heyward, Ender, Dansby

Mac, Camargo, Happ, Culberson


Still not sure I'd do it, but if they want the contract gone badly enough to attach Happ and trade Julio for peanuts to get rid of his money so AA doesn't have to...


(Really probably don't think I'd do it even then, but since the discussion on MLB Network Radio was all about how Theo asked Borass to come back to them before accepting an offer so they could have more time to unload money and the hosts were looking for ANY way to unload Heyward, that popped up. They were talking about attaching Contreras to Heyward to try to get the Dodgers to swallow it.)
 
Man... if we could somehow get Polanco, that could be exciting... I have a feeling if he could get under the right coaching, he could have a handful of those breakout career prime years... his tools and exit velocity numbers are just so impressive... of course he's had shoulder issues which can always be a bit scary.
 
clvclv said:
May have finally found the only way it's worth taking him back. If The Cubs want to get Harper and Bryant together so desperately...

Julio for Heyward and Happ



If you then cut Duvall loose, that would bring the payroll in at ~ $122 million and allow AA to pull the trigger on the Realmuto trade, leaving you with...

Acuna, Albies, Freeman, Donaldson, Realmuto, Heyward, Ender, Dansby

Mac, Camargo, Happ, Culberson


Still not sure I'd do it, but if they want the contract gone badly enough to attach Happ and trade Julio for peanuts to get rid of his money so AA doesn't have to...


(Really probably don't think I'd do it even then, but since the discussion on MLB Network Radio was all about how Theo asked Borass to come back to them before accepting an offer so they could have more time to unload money and the hosts were looking for ANY way to unload Heyward, that popped up. They were talking about attaching Contreras to Heyward to try to get the Dodgers to swallow it.)
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Crazy idea, Heyward is owed this over the next five years:

9 29 Chicago Cubs $20,000,000 9.000 Has right to opt out of contract following 2019 season if he has 550 PA that year.
2020 30 Chicago Cubs $21,000,000
2021 31 Chicago Cubs $21,000,000
2022 32 Chicago Cubs $22,000,000
2023 33 Chicago Cubs $22,000,000
 
why do we have ppl trading for the #1 C in the game and then throwing him in LF

he could def play some 1B to spell Fredito, but there's no way anyone would have him play a position he's never played before
 
Braves1976 said:
Crazy idea, Heyward is owed this over the next five years:

9 29 Chicago Cubs $20,000,000 9.000 Has right to opt out of contract following 2019 season if he has 550 PA that year.
2020 30 Chicago Cubs $21,000,000
2021 31 Chicago Cubs $21,000,000
2022 32 Chicago Cubs $22,000,000
2023 33 Chicago Cubs $22,000,000
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There’s no way he opts out
 
Freshmaker said:
why do we have ppl trading for the #1 C in the game and then throwing him in LF

he could def play some 1B to spell Fredito, but there's no way anyone would have him play a position he's never played before
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I don't see that happening as others here suggested. But I do believe he could be moved there or first or even third down the road if another catcher came up giving us reason to do so. That is why I'd have no issue signing him to an extension if we traded for him.
 
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