This is where our hard earned money goes.

This thread reminds me of a Carlin bit

Now, to balance the scale, I'd like to talk about some things that bring us together, things that point out our similarities instead of our differences. 'Cause that's all you ever hear about in this country. It's our differences. That's all the media and the politicians are ever talking about--the things that separate us, things that make us different from one another. That's the way the ruling class operates in any society. They try to divide the rest of the people. They keep the lower and the middle classes fighting with each other so that they, the rich, can run off with all the ****ing money! Fairly simple thing. Happens to work. You know? Anything different--that's what they're gonna talk about--race, religion, ethnic and national background, jobs, income, education, social status, sexuality, anything they can do to keep us fighting with each other, so that they can keep going to the bank! You know how I define the economic and social classes in this country? The upper class keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there just to scare the **** out of the middle class. Keep 'em showing up at those jobs.
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thethe said:
Thats all well and good but I don't want to hear people excuses why they can't get a job. I grew up poor and had nothing. My mother died when I was 8 years old and my father worked 14-16 hours a day. I had to be responsible for myself from an early age. I could have decided to be a **** up but I decided that school was important to me. Nobody asked me if I did my homework and nobody made sure I was home at a certain time. But you know what I made sure of all those things.

Its just BS excuses over and over. If you want something bad enough you'll get it done.
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That's great. It speaks well of you.

Sometimes the excuses are BS. Sometimes they aren't.

There are definitely people who opt out of work and live on the system in a variety of ways. There was a good series on NPR/PRI (?) about the proliferation of SSI/disability cases and the choice between looking for work at the bottom of the legit economy and going on on disability—I think Temo posted a link to it, over on the old board, I think. Yes, there are people like the lady in the OP. But you seem stuck on the idea that this is commonplace, that welfare is bankrupting us, and that if we got rid of it there would somehow be an improvement.

In general, though, I just can't subscribe to your vision of the US as some kind of giant welfare state. I mean, compared to whom? We have a fat less generous safety net that most other countries with developed economies.

Everybody doesn't have access to the tools necessary to get a good job. Some people are born with easy access to those tools. Some people aren't, but through some combination of hard work and good luck, will acquire them. Some people simply won't. There aren't good jobs out there for everyone.
 
Julio3000 said:
That's great. It speaks well of you.

Sometimes the excuses are BS. Sometimes they aren't.

There are definitely people who opt out of work and live on the system in a variety of ways. There was a good series on NPR/PRI (?) about the proliferation of SSI/disability cases and the choice between looking for work at the bottom of the legit economy and going on on disability—I think Temo posted a link to it, over on the old board, I think. Yes, there are people like the lady in the OP. But you seem stuck on the idea that this is commonplace, that welfare is bankrupting us, and that if we got rid of it there would somehow be an improvement.

In general, though, I just can't subscribe to your vision of the US as some kind of giant welfare state. I mean, compared to whom? We have a fat less generous safety net that most other countries with developed economies.

Everybody doesn't have access to the tools necessary to get a good job. Some people are born with easy access to those tools. Some people aren't, but through some combination of hard work and good luck, will acquire them. Some people simply won't. There aren't good jobs out there for everyone.
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Sure, the sheer economics of our country won't allow everyone to have a good job. But then those that can't get a job need to make better decisions for themselves. How about not having kids? Again, I think it comes down to making poor decisions in your life. If you do that then you shouldn't have a safety net.

I don't think Social Welfare on its own will cripple our nation but I think the trend we are going to will just increase that program to the point it will cause a danger. People on social welfare will more likely than not vote for those that will advance it. Thats the direction we are going and its not a good direction to go to IMO.
 
thethe said:
But then those that can't get a job need to make better decisions for themselves. How about not having kids? Again, I think it comes down to making poor decisions in your life. If you do that then you shouldn't have a safety net. .
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People make mistakes. People **** up. Not everyone has kids on purpose. Sure that lady is a moron, but again, she's the exception.
 
zitothebrave said:
It's an obstacle, arguably the hardest. You were lucky to have a good family at home I'm sure, right? Not every kid is lucky enough.
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No I did not unfortunately.

And all you need is to work hard and get good grades and get a scholarship somewhere.

You don't need a degree from a big university either. You just need the right degree.
 
Gary82 said:
People make mistakes. People **** up. Not everyone has kids on purpose. Sure that lady is a moron, but again, she's the exception.
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I would think the vast majority of those people that have kids that can't afford it are morons. There will always be those that tried and used protection and it didn't work. But, if you are careful enough there is no reason to have kids before you are ready mentally and financially.
 
Has anyone cared to take a look at the correlation of welfare programs/spending and the amount of people who need it over the years?

It's interesting. Basically, when free money is at hand (and by free, I mean stolen from workers), folks tend to find it. When more free money becomes available, more folks find it.
 
thethe said:
This is what ultimately has to be done. The human race has gotten to this point by the principals of Darwinism. Time to go back to that.
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Awesome.

I can go to work everyday having to look behind my shoulder for fear someone's going to rob me or mug me for money or food.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Awesome.

I can go to work everyday having to look behind my shoulder for fear someone's going to rob me or mug me for money or food.
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Or maybe people get motivated to make themselves better in a legal way?

Not really sure what a good solution to this growing issue is.
 
thethe said:
Or maybe people get motivated to make themselves better in a legal way?

Not really sure what a good solution to this growing issue is.
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Darwinism goes against that. That's why for me, giving out a few handouts to poor people to limit how much damage they can do to our society, is a no brainer.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Darwinism goes against that. That's why for me, giving out a few handouts to poor people to limit how much damage they can do to our society, is a no brainer.
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I think that danger can be policed out. I rarely walk the streets at night so I would still feel pretty safe. Not sure what seedy areas you are walking home in.
 
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