Wren Interested in Bringing Hudson Back

cajunrevenge said:
Whats your definition of an ace?
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To me an ace wins 2/3 of his starts, an ERA 3.00 and under and is absolutely unflappable on the mound. That is not Kris Medlen. When he is off, he is very off and gets worse as the game goes on because he does not have that bulldog mentality that Smoltz, Maddux, and Galvine had. Kris is a nice number 3 or 4 but no more.
 
emk418 said:
You mean in his rookie season when he blew through the minors? Not a lot of pitchers are very efficient when they come up in their first year. Beachy clearly made huge adjustments the year he went down with TJ.
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So when was he ever very efficient? I provided stats to back up my side of the argument, where are yours?
 
Carp said:
Except it isn't a good starting point. You don't start your negotiations by offering up a fringe prospect like Terdo and decent but not great pitching prospect in Hale.

Any trade for Price begins and ends with one of Wood or Teheran and Bethancourt (whom the Rays have coveted for a while now). And it would take more than those 2 pieces. The Rays are notorious for asking the highest price for their players, and more often than not, they always get back great value or they don't make the trade at all. I can't think of one major trade the Rays have been involved in that they didn't completely hose their trading partner.
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Careful, you might cause Knuck to cry and leave the board. It's better if you just pat him on the head and say "great idea Timmy".
 
Dalyn said:
Beachy was terribly inefficient, especially at the beginning.
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My recollection as well. Throws a lot of strikes, but really lacks a killer "out" pitch so the ABs tend to go on for a bit. Guys are going to foul a lot of balls off with him. His stuff looks pretty straight to me.
 
NYCBrave said:
So when was he ever very efficient? I provided stats to back up my side of the argument, where are yours?
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Who said he was very efficient? I said from year one to year two he made big strides. Isn't that what you look for in a young pitcher?
 
emk418 said:
Who said he was very efficient? I said from year one to year two he made big strides. Isn't that what you look for in a young pitcher?
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You quoted me on a response I gave to another poster who claimed he was efficient. So basically what you did was the equivalent of walking into a room in the middle of a convo and started giving your opinion.
 
Carp said:
Except it isn't a good starting point. You don't start your negotiations by offering up a fringe prospect like Terdo and decent but not great pitching prospect in Hale.

Any trade for Price begins and ends with one of Wood or Teheran and Bethancourt (whom the Rays have coveted for a while now). And it would take more than those 2 pieces. The Rays are notorious for asking the highest price for their players, and more often than not, they always get back great value or they don't make the trade at all. I can't think of one major trade the Rays have been involved in that they didn't completely hose their trading partner.
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When did I ever say it could only be just those 2 players? No GM is going to immediately drop his drawers and offer his best prospects. They feel out who might be available, offer names and give indications of who's untouchable. Somebody else said that they want Bethacourt, but nobody's posted it yet. They may never get past a couple of calls.
 
NYCBrave said:
You quoted me on a response I gave to another poster who claimed he was efficient. So basically what you did was the equivalent of walking into a room in the middle of a convo and started giving your opinion.
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Isn't that the point of a message board? Someone starts a convo then other people join and give their opinion? Having a bad day?
 
N
Knucksie said:
When did I ever say it could only be just those 2 players? No GM is going to immediately drop his drawers and offer his best prospects. They feel out who might be available, offer names and give indications of who's untouchable. Somebody else said that they want Bethacourt, but nobody's posted it yet. They may never get past a couple of calls.
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You said Terdo and Hale "were a good starting point." That is the issue and it simply isn't true. Because regardless if you expect other players involved in such a trade, Terdo and Hale are not a good starting point for anything. Terdo is a fringe prospect. Hale is a decent pitching prospect, but nothing special so far. They both are throw-in level prospects, especially in trade someone like Price. And no one uses throw-ins as a starting point in negotiations. Those types of players are the last players that are discussed in a deal.

As far as the Rays coveting Bethancourt, a simple google search produces several results. I can't link from my phone, but there is an article quoting Jayson Stark that the Rays have been keeping tabs on him for quite a while.
 
emk418 said:
Isn't that the point of a message board? Someone starts a convo then other people join and give their opinion? Having a bad day?
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Once again you totally missed the point. You took my comment totally out of context in regards to Beachy. Maybe go back and read the whole thread before commenting?
 
Carp said:
N

You said Terdo and Hale "were a good starting point." That is the issue and it simply isn't true. Because regardless if you expect other players involved in such a trade, Terdo and Hale are not a good starting point for anything. Terdo is a fringe prospect. Hale is a decent pitching prospect, but nothing special so far. They both are throw-in level prospects, especially in trade someone like Price. And no one uses throw-ins as a starting point in negotiations. Those types of players are the last players that are discussed in a deal.

As far as the Rays coveting Bethancourt, a simple google search produces several results. I can't link from my phone, but there is an article quoting Jayson Stark that the Rays have been keeping tabs on him for quite a while.
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Terdo and Hale are nice pieces to have but they would hold little value in a trade for Price. Maybe they would be the 4th & 5th pieces in a trade for him.
 
Carp said:
N

You said Terdo and Hale "were a good starting point." That is the issue and it simply isn't true. Because regardless if you expect other players involved in such a trade, Terdo and Hale are not a good starting point for anything. Terdo is a fringe prospect. Hale is a decent pitching prospect, but nothing special so far. They both are throw-in level prospects, especially in trade someone like Price. And no one uses throw-ins as a starting point in negotiations. Those types of players are the last players that are discussed in a deal.

As far as the Rays coveting Bethancourt, a simple google search produces several results. I can't link from my phone, but there is an article quoting Jayson Stark that the Rays have been keeping tabs on him for quite a while.
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If that one clown didn't feel the need to spark a debate out of nothing, nobody would've paid attention. My reason for joining is not to commiserate with fantasy league or PS4 buddies, submit trade proposals or debate "value." Obviously, it's a serious controversy that those names were mentioned. Sorry for the post. It was just a discussion. BTW, the post was " + could be...a package" not "were a good starting point." You can go back and see for yourself. Misquoting just to argue is poor form.

I'm past the point of caring what Tampa Bay might want or if Wren even attempts to acquire him. (Really something in a thread about Hudson!)

Now, can you just let it go?

emk418 said:
Terdo and Hale are nice pieces to have but they would hold little value in a trade for Price. Maybe they would be the 4th & 5th pieces in a trade for him.
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They might and that's all the post was indicating. If it means emptying the farm to also include the best 2 or 3 other prospects, then the wise decision is to move on from somebody who'd only be around for 2 seasons.
 
VirginiaBrave said:
To me an ace wins 2/3 of his starts, an ERA 3.00 and under and is absolutely unflappable on the mound. That is not Kris Medlen. When he is off, he is very off and gets worse as the game goes on because he does not have that bulldog mentality that Smoltz, Maddux, and Galvine had. Kris is a nice number 3 or 4 but no more.
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This season only 4 starters meet your requirements. Greinke, Colon, Wainwright and Scherzer. Very very few starts are ever going to meet your requirements. Ironically Medlen set a record for consecutive team wins when he starts with 25 going into the play-in game last year and you dont consider him an ace.
 
VirginiaBrave said:
To me an ace wins 2/3 of his starts, an ERA 3.00 and under and is absolutely unflappable on the mound. That is not Kris Medlen. When he is off, he is very off and gets worse as the game goes on because he does not have that bulldog mentality that Smoltz, Maddux, and Galvine had. Kris is a nice number 3 or 4 but no more.
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Three or four? Seriously?

Nobody wins 2/3 of their starts for a career. More like half. Look it up.

He does have a bulldog mentality. And he lacks flap. And his ERA is going to be consistently under 3.00.

I think he's more of a high two-low one. Excellent pitcher.

But Beachy's better. Maybe Teheran, too.

These guys are all so early in their careers it's still hard to accurately predict their career arcs, but I'm very bullish on our rotation.
 
thethe said:
Medlen a four? Did zeets create an alt?
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Well, as you said yourself....Teheran is our "ace". Hopefully he progresses and takes that mantel. Minor is the number 2. A healthy Beachy return has him pushing JT and Minor in the first three slots. That leaves Medlen at 4 (if Beachy is healthy), and either Hudson or Wood as the 5th.

That is not a knock on medlen, it simply would be a stronger rotation setup in '14 if this was to play out. If this plays out, we don't overspend in money or prospects for an "ace" .... And we can finally fix the holes in our offense
 
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