yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
And some people will never blame Fredi.
He deserves criticism for not putting Kimbrel in the game. Plain and simple. It's silly to suggest otherwise.
Video of Kimbrel
- Thread starter tululush
- Start date
And some people will never blame Fredi.
He deserves criticism for not putting Kimbrel in the game. Plain and simple. It's silly to suggest otherwise.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
So every team trailing in a series should put the closer in for 2?
I'll watch the rest of the playoffs and see if any team does.
Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
Let's not act like that was the situation. Carpenter had already shown that he was tired a bit and prone to mistakes. Luckily, we had cushion his first appearance. Elimination game. One-run lead. Kimbrel warmed and ready. Wanting the ball. Knowing if we win this we don't have to face Kershaw again. You better believe you put him in. As for other playoff teams, no one else has a closer at Kimbrel's level.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
I would bet you the yankees would have if Rivera wasn't so old. In fact he pitched 2 full innings 27 times in the playoffs. If Kimbrel had pitched the day before or we had a game the next day I could understand, but be had 2 days off and a day off before game 5. There was no reason for kimbrel not to be in the game.
Rivera is different story.
Rivera can strike out guys, but he's known as a pitch to contact guy (sawing off people with the cutter). Kimbrel is a blow by you guy, and he hasn't learned how to get efficient innings yet like Rivera. He still gasses 10+ pitches per save usually.
Rivera can strike out guys, but he's known as a pitch to contact guy (sawing off people with the cutter). Kimbrel is a blow by you guy, and he hasn't learned how to get efficient innings yet like Rivera. He still gasses 10+ pitches per save usually.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
When you're on the brink of getting eliminated, have the best closer in the league, two of the opponents hottest hitters are coming to the plate, and the guy you're going to use instead allowed a 2-run homer two nights earlier? Yes. You freakin use your best guy. It's a no-brainer.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
I'm sorry, did Carpenter not pitch two nights earlier just like Kimbrel?
And the worst part is, Kimbrel begged for the call. Dumbass Fredi had to go "by the book" and look what happened.
I really can't believe people think not using Kimbrel was the right call. It was the worst and most critical wrong call of our season. Be real.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
Yeah But Uehara is 38 years old. It gets easier to throw multiple innings as get older right?
Runnin
Well-known member
He's isn't an adrenaline fueled power pitcher, has multiple pitches, generally pitches to contact and has a lot more experienced doing it.
You guys can keep beating this dead horse till kingdom come but you'll still be wrong.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
How you can something is wrong if it wasnt given a chance to be right? Look I never questioned Fredi or said bad things about him till this. I was far more okay with Garcia starting game 4 than everyone else and even said Fredi deserved credit for it if Garcia pitched well which he did. I think the pen was a weakness coming into the series and I advocated starting Minor in game 5 so that Medlen could be used out of the pen. So in my mind Medlen for the 8th was the right decision. If Carpenter had not already given up runs in the series I might see your point. Fredi managed the game like it was April, in October you dont manage like its a meaningless game.
Strike3urout
Active member
Of course, you can just as well argue that Bobby Cox overmanaged that situation, unnecessarily pulled Kimbrel with 2 outs and 2 runners on base, and brought in lesser pitchers who proceeded to give the game away.
Kimbrel when he's not on, starts walking guys and tries to over throw. I think we've all seen it often, and we all saw it on Game 2 (thankfully Simmons saved the day with the tag).
Rivera doesn't rely on overpowering stuff, he wants to get you out as quickly as possible. Kimbrel has stated many times he'd rather have a 5 pitch inning than striking out the side. Problem is, he hasn't learned yet how to do it regularly. I think one of his problems is, he throws so hard that guys can't make contact and end up swinging and whiffing on the first or second pitch. Or his stuff is so overpowering that guys will take pitches instead of trying to hack. With Rivera it's different, guys know they're going to get a pitch and where it's going, and they can't make good contact.
As against the grain as it sounds, I think Kimbrel would be better off throwing 94-95 but getting guys to pop up or flyout, than trying to throw 98-100 every time and getting them to swing and miss. All the effort he uses to try and strike out guys, is why he can't realistically go 2 full innings. Sure his sexy numbers like his WHIP and K/9 ratio won't be historically groundbreaking anymore, but I want Kimbrel to last forever and at the rate he's going he's going to have TJ soon. Rivera to my knowledge has never had tommy john, and he's been about as durable as you can get sans that freak injury.
Anybody remember when Brad Penny started the All-Star game a few years ago? He was clocking 99-100 mph in the first two-three innings because he knew he was only going to be pitching the few innings instead of saving his energy for 6-7 innings.
Rivera doesn't rely on overpowering stuff, he wants to get you out as quickly as possible. Kimbrel has stated many times he'd rather have a 5 pitch inning than striking out the side. Problem is, he hasn't learned yet how to do it regularly. I think one of his problems is, he throws so hard that guys can't make contact and end up swinging and whiffing on the first or second pitch. Or his stuff is so overpowering that guys will take pitches instead of trying to hack. With Rivera it's different, guys know they're going to get a pitch and where it's going, and they can't make good contact.
As against the grain as it sounds, I think Kimbrel would be better off throwing 94-95 but getting guys to pop up or flyout, than trying to throw 98-100 every time and getting them to swing and miss. All the effort he uses to try and strike out guys, is why he can't realistically go 2 full innings. Sure his sexy numbers like his WHIP and K/9 ratio won't be historically groundbreaking anymore, but I want Kimbrel to last forever and at the rate he's going he's going to have TJ soon. Rivera to my knowledge has never had tommy john, and he's been about as durable as you can get sans that freak injury.
Anybody remember when Brad Penny started the All-Star game a few years ago? He was clocking 99-100 mph in the first two-three innings because he knew he was only going to be pitching the few innings instead of saving his energy for 6-7 innings.
sturg33
I
What I've learned from this thread:
1. Kimbrel isn't good enough to pitch 2 innings, even though he has before
2. No other manager would do something out of the ordinary to ensure a victory, except for the three other managers that have already
3. The move that Fredi didn't make would definitely fail worse than the move he did make which failed
1. Kimbrel isn't good enough to pitch 2 innings, even though he has before
2. No other manager would do something out of the ordinary to ensure a victory, except for the three other managers that have already
3. The move that Fredi didn't make would definitely fail worse than the move he did make which failed
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
No because Kimbrel was our closer and best reliever.
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
This is basically the opposite of what the overwhelming majority of people in this thread have said. Worst. Snark. Ever.
Uh, Uhera struck out 12 guys per 9 vs. 13 for Kimbrel. had less pitches make contact than Kimbrel, and had far more guys swing and miss.
Pitches per inning (2013)
Kimbrel 15.5
Rivera 14.7
Uhera 14.2
Call me crazy, but I don't think the 3 extra pitches that Kimbrel would need to throw over the course of 2 innings would be a huge difference.
We should turn Kimbrel into Chris Reitsma?
