2020 Field

[Julio3000]

One point on which I’d disagree with Cockburn is that Biden is “currently leading the polls for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination”; quite a few polls have him in a comfortable second behind Sanders, though ahead of O’Rourke Mark 2 (aka Buttigieg). But the legislative record is there, it’s a real disqualifier, and—unlike, say, Harris, who as a political weathervane that’s gained sentience can at least read polls and tell which way the wind is blowing—he’s done nothing but double-down on that record. I had a lot of deep policy critiques of Clinton circa 2015, but on that front Biden is substantially worse in just about every way.

Everyone knows I’m a Sanders supporter, but it’s really frustrating to me that Warren isn’t getting more mainstream coverage, party support, or traction in the polls; if you want a less-divisive, more centrist version of Sanders who still carries water for some of his most popular proposals, she’s it.

My current estrangement from party politics is going to become permanent if Biden gets the nomination. What a phenomenally bad idea. As it is, I’m going to be holding my nose voting for anyone but Sanders or Warren.

 

[acesfull86]

I’d be curious to hear what you guys think makes the non-Sanders/Warren folks nose-holding worthy (not including Biden...I think he’s obvious)

Other than lack of experience, I’m having trouble finding substantial policy differences (at least what we’ve gotten so far). The Klobuchar woman seems moderate (compared to a Sanders), but I don’t see a whole lot of daylight between them all on policy.

 

[jpx7]

i don't know about the worst but i don't want it to be him vs trump

that's for sure

Worse than anyone in the current primary field, and substantially worse than the failed 2016 (D) candidate. I knew about the disqualifying legislative résumé and the foreign policy missteps (putatively one of his “stronger” areas); but 50’s article also illuminates grave organizational and logistics deficits.

 

[jpx7]

I’d be curious to hear what you guys think makes the non-Sanders/Warren folks nose-holding worthy (not including Biden...I think he’s obvious)

Other than lack of experience, I’m having trouble finding substantial policy differences (at least what we’ve gotten so far). The Klobuchar woman seems moderate (compared to a Sanders), but I don’t see a whole lot of daylight between them all on policy.

There are real policy differences—Warren’s recent ambitious student-debt plan goes far beyond anything proposed by the non-Sanders/Warren field; Sanders’ recent support for actual universal suffrage is a loud one in the discourse right now—but I think it’s equally important to look at the legislative and advocacy records when making candidate comparisons.

For instance, it’s hard to take Harris seriously on criminal justice and mass incarceration reforms when, as a DA in SF, and then AG of CA, she billed herself as a tough-on-crime candidate and jailed substantially more Californians than her predecessors; that’s nine years worth of actions versus nine months worth of (carefully triangulated) speeches. Likewise, it’s hard to take Booker seriously re healthcare reforms or M4A support when he’s spent most of his political life carrying water for (and buckets of donations from) the pharmaceutical industry (and it’s likewise true re education, given his history of vociferous support for charter schools).

I’m not saying people’s thinking and positions can’t evolve—Warren herself experienced a pretty massive course-correction in the 1990s—but it’s hard to take these policy turns seriously, especially when weighing them against a candidate (Sanders) who’s been consistent on a lot of these issues since before I was born.

 

[sturg33]

Bernies economic advisor

[Tw]1121781127876947968[/tw]

 

[cajunrevenge]

Well we have been trying very hard to run out and have been so far unsuccesfull. Bernie aint getting 1% of what he wants economically through Congress.

 

[50PoundHead]

Doesn't have to be functioning. I'd settle for someone in a coma.

Sentience 2020!

 

[Julio3000]

I’d be curious to hear what you guys think makes the non-Sanders/Warren folks nose-holding worthy (not including Biden...I think he’s obvious)

Other than lack of experience, I’m having trouble finding substantial policy differences (at least what we’ve gotten so far). The Klobuchar woman seems moderate (compared to a Sanders), but I don’t see a whole lot of daylight between them all on policy.

For me, and obviously reduced to thumbnail form:

Biden - long, mostly abysmal legislative record. Iraq war vote is a major red flag for me. Plus all the hair-sniffing and whatnot.

Harris - I have a problem in principle with how we elevate prosecutors into elective office. Anyone who’s anti-carceral-state is probably going to balk at her.

Klobuchar - Same. I had a generally favorable opinion of her as a decent middle-of-the-road type, but the stuff about how she treats her staff is really off-putting.

Booker - good on a few issues but has pretty much always struck me as a neolib corporate money vacuum

Buttigieg - I will have a more informed opinion when he’s got more substance on the policy side, but for me the media narrative around him (brainiac, veteran, aw-shucks Midwesterner) isn’t sufficient. A lot of similarity with Obama, minus the oratory skills...which, from a left perspective, is not an endorsement.

I guess those are the top-tier candidates? Some of the second-tier candidates seem at least have some things to recommend them, but are essentially irrelevant.

 

[BedellBrave]

For me, and obviously reduced to thumbnail form:

Biden - long, mostly abysmal legislative record. Iraq war vote is a major red flag for me. Plus all the hair-sniffing and whatnot.

Harris - I have a problem in principle with how we elevate prosecutors into elective office. Anyone who’s anti-carceral-state is probably going to balk at her.

Klobuchar - Same. I had a generally favorable opinion of her as a decent middle-of-the-road type, but the stuff about how she treats her staff is really off-putting.

Booker - good on a few issues but has pretty much always struck me as a neolib corporate money vacuum

Buttigieg - I will have a more informed opinion when he’s got more substance on the policy side, but for me the media narrative around him (brainiac, veteran, aw-shucks Midwesterner) isn’t sufficient. A lot of similarity with Obama, minus the oratory skills...which, from a left perspective, is not an endorsement.

I guess those are the top-tier candidates? Some of the second-tier candidates seem at least have some things to recommend them, but are essentially irrelevant.

Find myself in agreement with you on all of these assessments Julio. But I keep getting the feeling that Buttigieg will keep moving to the top of the list. Almost get the feel it's inevitable.

 

[nsacpi]

Find myself in agreement with you on all of these assessments Julio. But I keep getting the feeling that Buttigieg will keep moving to the top of the list. Almost get the fell it's inevitable.

Buttigieg shows some of the same kind of early momentum Obama had in 2008 and Trump in 2016. He's catching on fire at the right time.

 

[BedellBrave]

Buttigieg shows some of the same kind of early momentum Obama had in 2008 and Trump in 2016. He's catching on fire at the right time.

And let's face it -- his sexuality will have most of the media all in a positive tizzy. Just where we are as a nation. The Zeitgeist

 

[Julio3000]

And let's face it -- his sexuality will have most of the media all in a positive tizzy. Just where we are as a nation. The Zeitgeist

Well, to be fair, it’s an easy story to write—we’ve gone from gay marriage being a huge election-year wedge issue to a married gay candidate in 4 election cycles. But, yeah, I see him rising on a big cloud of positive media, which I’m at a bit of a loss to explain...I get why it’s happening, and in his defense, his sexual orientation isn’t the primary driver of it, but as a lefty I don’t find myself enamored.

 

[nsacpi]

Well, to be fair, it’s an easy story to write—we’ve gone from gay marriage being a huge election-year wedge issue to a married gay candidate in 4 election cycles. But, yeah, I see him rising on a big cloud of positive media, which I’m at a bit of a loss to explain...I get why it’s happening, and in his defense, his sexual orientation isn’t the primary driver of it, but as a lefty I don’t find myself enamored.

American voters (in both parties) tend to be more gut rather than ideologically oriented, compared to most other countries. Once an appealing narrative takes root, it becomes more like a movement than anything else. Like catching lightening in a bottle. A lot of things have to come together.

 

[thethe]

I hope people judge mayor pete in his record while in office as opposed to checking the right identity politics buckets.

 

[thethe]

It would still be a shock if an incumbent president gets beat on the back of a strong economy which is what the narrative looks like currently. Still a long time till election day though.

 

[cajunrevenge]

And with a con man as President we can expect record fundraising.

 

[Krgrecw]

It would still be a shock if an incumbent president gets beat on the back of a strong economy which is what the narrative looks like currently. Still a long time till election day though.

It might be a strong economy but do you think any democrat in here would actually vote for trump over the democratic nominee? I don’t. America is like this message board.

 

[thethe]

It might be a strong economy but do you think any democrat in here would actually vote for trump over the democratic nominee? I don’t. America is like this message board.

Its all about the indepdendents. They will have a choice of socialism/late term abortion/censorship or a vibrant economy and free expression.

I think people are going to be shocked at how much trump wins by in 2020.

 

[Krgrecw]

Its all about the indepdendents. They will have a choice of socialism/late term abortion/censorship or a vibrant economy and free expression.

I think people are going to be shocked at how much trump wins by in 2020.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of people stay home this election. Theyll never be able to bring themselves to vote for trump but they won’t like whomever the Democrats elect

 

[goldfly]

Lol, 120k votes is all they have to flip or get new people to vote for in 4 states combined

He hasn’t been getting new people to come to his side

A lot more have not liked him