The McCutchen contract, Realmuto trade, pending Rendon free-agency pressure following the loss of Harper, Diaz/Cano trade certainly prove that those teams certainly follow the "industry consensus" value formula rather than making questionable decisions rather than doing things in an effort to contend now.
Around The Majors 2019
- Thread starter CrimsonCowboy
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The McCutchen contract, Realmuto trade, pending Rendon free-agency pressure following the loss of Harper, Diaz/Cano trade certainly prove that those teams certainly follow the "industry consensus" value formula rather than making questionable decisions rather than doing things in an effort to contend now.
They certainly are entertaining.
It's rare to find someone so consistently stupid, and willing to defend those stupid ideas so vehemently.
We have 3-4 of those guys on this board, and they provide endless laughs.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
what does that have to do with the part of my post you bolded and are presumably trying to respond to...do you think us making a move next week to get a reliever will have a significant effect on the decision making of the fillies or gnats
Other than that he may have gotten a "reasonable offer" from another contender and that they're not there to make the offer for.
He likely doesn't have people blowing up his phone for them right now, so why not go get them while they're "cheap"? The next person that says Allard or Demeritte might be part of our future plans will be the first one that's said that in a LONG TIME - they've essentially been organizational filler for some time, and I'm pretty sure San Francisco would accept several others from the pool we have if AA doesn't have them to offer for Smith in a few weeks.
Southcack77
Well-known member
I think both Wentz and Muller were viewed as possible two way players with a higher upside on the mound, if I understand your question.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
My guess is the way these things play out is Dayton Moore has a pretty good idea of the teams that have potential interest in Kennedy and Diekman and has already talked to them. At some point one of those teams will table a serious offer. Whereupon Dayton will make phone calls to the other teams and tell them he is ready to move and that they need to get the offers in by a certain date. There is no reason for us to be the team pushing the timetable on this. If anything there is a case for us hanging back and waiting as long as possible before making our move.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least, no. Those teams are in markets with far greater pressures to win than Atlanta, which is a big part of the reasons those moves were made.
I wanted Realmuto, absolutely. But I understood AA's passing when the price got to the level it eventually did. McCutchen too. The terms they gave him were a bit much. We all get it, and no one jumped off the ledge. The fanbases in Philadelphia and Washington are different, and they don't have "waves of prospects" coming from within to fill holes with.
What's funny from "the other side" is constantly seeing posters looking for people to join their cult as blind followers. If putting players like we're discussing in trades like these to help the big club for the short-term don't hurt the system, what value can they possibly have? AA needs to hang onto guys like Camargo/Duvall/Demeritte/Wilson/Allard/Wentz/Davidson for another 6-8 months because their value is going to be higher? To whom???
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
So how do you think the fillies and gnats might act differently under these two scenarios over the next couple weeks:
1) Braves do nothing
2) Braves trade for a reliever
I'm curious how you see the decision making of the fillies and gnats changing if we make that trade.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
Even if what you are saying here is true, it is completely different than what you originally said. Teams vying to build a better team than their opponents in the offseason is not the same as a team making an upgrade in season and thus making their oppositions give up and sell.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
the fillies and gnats are going to add (probably modestly) regardless of what we do...it is hard to believe clv thinks what we do over the next week will move the needle in any significant way for those two teams
Southcack77
Well-known member
It isn't that their value will be higher, though it's certainly possible with several of those guys.
The problem is that you aren't receiving the correct return for their current value.
There are circumstances in which an overpay for players is acceptable, IMO, but you haven't laid out any such situation, IMO.
I did a while ago. The Phillies' brass has already shown a willingness to try to make win-now moves, whether they meet everyone else's value model or not. All the value hounds here lined up to talk about how dumb those moves were. Has their management changed since this winter and I missed the news? Their rotation is still iffy. So is their pen, and now their OF. What evidence is there that they won't include guys like Bohm and Medina to try to improve their current team in an effort to keep up? Rizzo gave Strasburg $175 million and Corbin $140 million while folks here were falling all over themselves to call him stupid. Did he get fired this morning? What evidence is there that he's not going to trade the best prospects they have left in a desperate attempt to show Rendon that they're committed to winning so that he'll stay when Harper didn't?
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Sure, we know the fillies are in win-now mode. So how does whether or not we get a reliever in the next week affect their choices. How does it affect the gnats choices. I'm really curious what difference you think it will make.
It limits the moves either can make for second-tier pen options.
The Phillies aren't likely to re-acquire Giles, meaning they have to chase the other guys - the Smith/Vasquez/Hand types. Their second-tier prospects are so much weaker, they're going to have to include the guys nearer the top of their list IF they're going to make a move for someone - whether that's a SP, RP, or OF. If we make a fairly significant pen upgrade now, they're going to have to make the decision whether they can keep up that much earlier - if they're still in win-now mode at least. They don't have the secondary pieces to upgrade all three of those areas at this point. Maybe they pick one of them and go overpay to try to stay in it, maybe they suddenly get smarter and don't. They either choose to hang onto their top guys and fight in 2020 while they still have Realmuto and McCutchen is back - and deal with the fans' ire for doing so - or they make aother stupid trade. Either way, you've made it tougher for them.
Same thing with the Gnats. Some of the guys we're talking about that should be enough to get Smith are afterthoughts in our system. They'd be Top 5-10 guys in Washington's. Significant pen improvements for us this early forces their hand. If they want to go get the Smith/Hand/Vasquez types to keep up in the hopes that Rendon decides to stay, it's going to cost them Kieboom/Garcia/Denaburg types.
Make both teams make that call now, not 3 weeks from now. You've still got plenty of pieces to keep going (although they shouldn't need to be used), be kept for plenty of depth, or to potentially be used later.
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Throw enough words at it and folks will stop caring enough to continue reading haha.
It is amusing seeing nsacpi try to coax a logical thought out of the playdoh eater though.
The Giants are waiting for all buyers to become apparent. Simple as that.