Braves Need to Brace for assult on Logo, Chop, History in 2021

weso1 said:
It's a pretty cool fan experience when you're at the games. I took my kids recently to their first Braves game and they really enjoyed the chant. It actually may have been there favorite part. As with all things like this it's important to ask who is really offended and why is it offensive. Is it just a small percentage of midwits feigning offense or is it truly offensive to that demographic.
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i'm not personally offended by it and don't think it's a big deal.
my enjoyment, or the enjoyment of my potential future children, means very little if it legitimately bothers people, especially if they're within that demo. people go to other team's game and enjoy them just fine without it. i think our fans can adapt. in the grand scheme of things, i think you're better off not bothering even one person than worrying about how fans will enjoy games anymore.
 
also it's good to keep in mind that "oh we've always done this, and suddenly it's racist?" isn't a good reason to keep doing something. yes, a lot of things that have been said and done and hinted at throughout the last however many decades have been and are still racist...it's just now being called out more. the chop is not your tradition, it doesn't belong to you, no matter how fun you find it.
 
Super said:
also it's good to keep in mind that "oh we've always done this, and suddenly it's racist?" isn't a good reason to keep doing something. yes, a lot of things that have been said and done and hinted at throughout the last however many decades have been and are still racist...it's just now being called out more. the chop is not your tradition, it doesn't belong to you, no matter how fun you find it.
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It was under fire for being racist when the Braves adopted it.

Good grief, I was pro-Confederate flag at that point and still knew it was dumb as hell to do that. Not to mention, it's dumb as hell on its own merit.
 
Super said:
i'm not personally offended by it and don't think it's a big deal.
my enjoyment, or the enjoyment of my potential future children, means very little if it legitimately bothers people, especially if they're within that demo. people go to other team's game and enjoy them just fine without it. i think our fans can adapt. in the grand scheme of things, i think you're better off not bothering even one person than worrying about how fans will enjoy games anymore.
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By that logic you'd have to ban just about everything. Hell, you offended people on this board by implying that all folks who are not happy with the OP article are rednecks. Your stamped political quote is offensive to people who don't want to read about politics on a sports board.
 
Southcack77 said:
It was under fire for being racist when the Braves adopted it.

Good grief, I was pro-Confederate flag at that point and still knew it was dumb as hell to do that. Not to mention, it's dumb as hell on its own merit.
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If it's racist and offensive, how do you explain the Seminoles fully supporting it where it started, FSU?
 
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Everybody just needs to quit letting sand get in their vaginas and offend them about everything. People whine more and more now than ever about how their feelings are hurt and this offends them and that offends them. Grow a pair and just let it roll off your back.
 
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Hudson2 said:
Everybody just needs to quit letting sand get in their vaginas and offend them about everything. People whine more and more now than ever about how their feelings are hurt and this offends them and that offends them. Grow a pair and just let it roll off your back.
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By all means double down on doing the thing that other people find annoying.

Be sure to cite your own butt hutt at the prospect of not being able to do the dumb thing that isn't important at all.

There are things that happened and there isn't way of making it unhappen. And pretending that it didn't happen is sort of silly. But no reason why you have to keep doing the thing once it's apparent that it's not the thing to do just because someone said you shouldn't.

This seems like a pretty simple concept, but my home state spent a few decades hemorrhaging money rather than do the obvious thing. Nikki Haley finally found the way to get around it, and it's a sad statement that it took using a tragedy to do the thing that most everyone (Republicans included) knew should be done, just to get the political breathing room to avoid having "bent to outside pressure."
 
Super said:
if it bothers people, why not just get rid of it. is it really that big of a deal
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The idea of changing anything about the Braves, the logo, the chop, or the chant, bothers me. Therefore, I agree with you that we should get rid of that idea.
 
Remember this: you can always elect to not chop. You can elect not to buy Braves merchandise, or tickets, or collect baseball cards with their logo. It is, last time I looked, a free country.
 
weso1 said:
By that logic you'd have to ban just about everything. Hell, you offended people on this board by implying that all folks who are not happy with the OP article are rednecks. Your stamped political quote is offensive to people who don't want to read about politics on a sports board.
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um, no. this is where context and nuance is important. i don't even know how to respond as you're talking broad strokes where i'm clearly not.
 
rico43 said:
Remember this: you can always elect to not chop. You can elect not to buy Braves merchandise, or tickets, or collect baseball cards with their logo. It is, last time I looked, a free country.
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That's pretty irrelevant. As a practical matter, I don't chop or buy baseball cards, because I'm not 9 years old. When I was 9 years old, there was no chop. I guess I kind of liked the teepee and Chief Knockahoma, when I was 9, but I can't say my adult self has missed him none. My kid seemed to like guys dressed up like a firefly or a non-classifiable thing just as much as I did the Chief, so I don't guess it would both him much either.

It doesn't enter into my decision making on whether to attend or watch a sporting event.
 
Jaw said:
The idea of changing anything about the Braves, the logo, the chop, or the chant, bothers me. Therefore, I agree with you that we should get rid of that idea.
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again, this broad stroke when what we're talking about has heavy context and nuance is stupid, but sadly typical.
 
The chop is not actually racist. It IS a stereotype. However, it is intended to denote power and strength, and to attempt to build some sort of momentum for the team. It is not being used in a derogatory manner. It may be dumb, but it is more symbolic of the team’s momentum during a game than an attempt to represent actual Native American traditions or behaviors.

The name “Braves” is not racist either. Nor is it the equivalent of using the term “cracker” or other derogatory terms such as “Redskins”. It is more equivalent to “minutemen” “volunteers” or “commodores”. All of which merely denote military fighters.

However, If the chop were abandoned and the name changed I would simply go on cheering for the team. I can wave my foam tomahawk at home as much as I like.
 
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IAJon said:
The chop is not actually racist. It IS a stereotype. However, it is intended to denote power and strength, and to attempt to build some sort of momentum for the team. It is not being used in a derogatory manner. It may be dumb, but it is more symbolic of the team’s momentum during a game than an attempt to represent actual Native American traditions or behaviors.

The name “Braves” is not racist either. Nor is it the equivalent of using the term “cracker” or other derogatory terms such as “Redskins”. It is more equivalent to “minutemen” “volunteers” or “commodores”. All of which merely denote military fighters.

However, If the chop were abandoned and the name changed I would simply go on cheering for the team. I can wave my foam tomahawk at home as much as I like.
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If you were starting a team now, you probably wouldn't lean into the whole appropriation thing and making a theme park caricature of a culture, but I agree that it's a lot more neutral than "Redskins."

the whole Tomahawk chop is basically rooted in a 50s/60s Hollywood concept of how to portray Native Americans. Thus brass band war chants, because that's what the guy doing Hollywood Western scores thought sounded cool.

It's about as valid a portrayal of history or tradition as "talk like a pirate day."

Is this really an important thing to protect for the children? I don't really think so. I'm in it to watch baseball myself.
 
I don't have a problem with changing the name. I don't even have a problem with changing the name because of pressure from some numbskulls writing on Twitter or The Atlantic. It's Liberty Media's team and they can do what they like with it.

I also don't have a problem with any non partisan organizations representing actual Native Americans who are offended by any of the Braves symbolism. I would like to hear details and, as Super says, nuance, but that's a legitimate position that deserves to be heard and discussed with an open mind.

My problem is with the usual suspects taking up the torch of victimhood on behalf of others who they believe just aren't enlightened enough to do it themselves, and with the attitude that we should just cave to these people. No. We should mock these people's position, we should point out their hypocrisy, we should tell them, as the Depression-era man who raised me used to say, to hoe their own row. We should never let them set the agenda, or have a speaking part in an adult conversation.
 
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