Gun Violence

50PoundHead said:
I'm not singling you out personally here, because I think there has been invective from the Left that has been as hateful as what comes from the Right, but when Huckabee the Elder wants to send everybody to Hell for being gay or transgender or advocating for more open borders; that can't be simply brushed under the rug. I somehow get the Huckabee/Yates My Faith Votes e-mail missives (thanks Republican legislators to whom I have contributed for selling my e-mail address to these folks!) and you'd swear we are balancing on a perilous precipice where the Secular Humanist vandals are storming the gates and Western Civilization will be escorted to the dustbin of history. I don't know the religious backgrounds of the perpetrators of the El Paso and Dayton shootings, but I'm guessing they weren't in the front row of the sanctuary every Sunday. The religion to which I subscribe says "Love God. Love your neighbor." The first part is fairly clear, but the second part clearly isn't "Agree with your neighbor on all items of modern life regardless of relative importance." I guess what I'm saying is that neither side is blameless in ratcheting up the ill feeling (which long predates the Trump Presidency) that is manifesting itself.

And, for the record, I'm a middle-aged White Guy and I really think the White Guys of all ages have to take a step back and quit their griping. Up your motherf*cking game instead of blaming the world for moving on without your express permission.
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There are plenty of white guys acting stupid, I certainly won't argue that. The things I brought up seem to be much more mainstream and accepted by a larger portion of the population. Perhaps that's a misperception on my part. I always enjoy your take on things.
 
Chicago Tribune
@chicagotribune


At least 48 people have been shot in Chicago since Friday evening, including a 5-year-old boy. Five were killed.
 
Just to note- Ya'll are aware that lots of people make their own ammo right?

There was a shortage of components (primers, I believe) a few years ago, and a LOT of people went to this method.

I don't think many folks would consider it a deterrent for a tax to be implemented, but just food for thought.

Your run of the mill psychopath likely won't go to this measure though.
 
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Tapate50 said:
Just to note- Ya'll are aware that lots of people make their own ammo right?

There was a shortage of components (primers, I believe) a few years ago, and a LOT of people went to this method.

I don't think many folks would consider it a deterrent for a tax to be implemented, but just food for thought.
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Prohibition has always proven to work
 
Not sure that anyone of consequence has advocated prohibiting guns.

Also not sure you know what the word "prohibit" means
 
Jaw said:
Compliant with the Second Amendment? What restrictions do you have in mind that meet the "shall not be infringed" qualifier.

I think you meant restrictions that are compliant with the interpretation of the Second Amendment that judicial activists have arrived at, and that certainly isn't the same thing.
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I know it’s hard to tell on the Internet, but this is an earnest question for you: given that jurisprudence around guns for most of our history mostly contains a reading of “bearing arms” quite different than is currently in vogue, that this jurisprudence mostly didn’t change until the last 30-40 years (along with public opinion), and that the individual right was only affirmed (one might say “discovered”) in 2008, is it fair to ask in this case who the “judicial activists” are?

It’s an important question to me, because the historical context is—or should be—an important part of the debate.
 
Jaw said:
There are plenty of white guys acting stupid, I certainly won't argue that. The things I brought up seem to be much more mainstream and accepted by a larger portion of the population. Perhaps that's a misperception on my part. I always enjoy your take on things.
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There are plenty of people from all races, creeds, religions, and genders that are acting stupid, so I don't have a problem calling "stupid" stupid. But taking the long view of history, I'm having a difficult time reconciling "white" (or Western civilization) and wide-scale victimhood. But there's enough lunacy to go around. Caucasians certainly don't comprise that entire realm.
 
sturg33 said:
This is anecdotal but I'm seeing a heck of a lot more coverage on El Paso than Dayton.

I've seen countless accusations of Trump rhetoric being responsible for El Paso... I've seen no such accusations of Elizabeth Warren rhetoric being responsible (its not)

As I said... we can be sure of 3 things...
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That might be because the El Paso shooting was directly motivated by racist sentiment that harmonized Trump’s/nativist right rhetoric on immigration. He spelled it out in as many words, so it seems to pretty obviously be an act of terrorism. To my knowledge, there is no identified ideological bent to the shooting in Dayton. That seems fairly self-evident, no?
 
Julio3000 said:
“Minnesota Nice” is just passive-aggressive repressed Viking rage?
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repressed Viking rage is what our current national crisis is all about...young men need that outlet...used to be they got on a boat and spent a few years at sea...leaving an occasional spawn in a distant port

#thegoodolddays
 
Another shooter captured in a Wal-Mart parking lot loading his gun. Police caught him before he finished, and he was apprehended peacefully.
 
Julio3000 said:
I know it’s hard to tell on the Internet, but this is an earnest question for you: given that jurisprudence around guns for most of our history mostly contains a reading of “bearing arms” quite different than is currently in vogue, that this jurisprudence mostly didn’t change until the last 30-40 years (along with public opinion), and that the individual right was only affirmed (one might say “discovered”) in 2008, is it fair to ask in this case who the “judicial activists” are?

It’s an important question to me, because the historical context is—or should be—an important part of the debate.
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I suppose I don't think it matters what the precedents are when we are talking about how it should be applied.

The 10th Amendment makes it very clear that the Bill of Rights is not about granting rights to citizens, it is simply recognizing them, and setting limits for government. In that view, I believe that every one of the BoR amendments should be applied in the way that restricts government the most, and citizens the least.

Now, I've said here before that I think we need changes in gun laws. Thirty round detachable magazines seems extreme to me, and we need to find a way to screen for mentally ill effectively, and we need an effective mechanism for family, school staff, employers, etc to report dangerously disturbed people.

There's more but I think those are things we can get 80ish percent of the populace to agree on. But I do not believe any law making those changes is constitutional, nor do I believe that any law limiting any ownership of any weapon is constitutional. That doesn't mean I want my neighbor to own a tank, or the Koch brothers to own a nuke. I absolutely believe we should have some restrictions, I just think think the only constitutional way to have them is to amend or replace the Second Amendment.

And I believe everyone should feel that way because of the slippery slope I've outlined earlier today. I really can't believe more people aren't concerned with that with the accusations of judicial activism by both sides.
 
Tapate50 said:
Just to note- Ya'll are aware that lots of people make their own ammo right?

There was a shortage of components (primers, I believe) a few years ago, and a LOT of people went to this method.

I don't think many folks would consider it a deterrent for a tax to be implemented, but just food for thought.

Your run of the mill psychopath likely won't go to this measure though.
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They aren't really making it, they're assembling it. A tax ban on ammo components would surely be included.
 
nsacpi said:
There is something that doesn't quite add up there. The police chief is tiptoeing around something.
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There doesn't seem to be much to tiptoe around in his case, he was just an evil bastard. Dude kept two lists in high school, one of male classmates he wanted to kill, and another of female classmates he wanted to rape. He's been having these fantasies for at least 5 or 6 years.
 
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