Francisco Cervelli a Brave?

Tapate50 said:
There was a pitcher from NYY that called him the best he'd ever thrown to when the Pirates picked him up. Can't remember who.

Anyone notice Flowers is REALLy late getting set back there? Its like a tick he's picked up and is doing all this unnecessary movement as the pitcher is getting set to deliver?

Also- dropping strikes is a pet peeve of mine. Really grinds my gears if ya know what I mean.
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It may be just me getting annoyed with the past balls lately, but yeah, he does seem to be getting a little too cute back there. Almost like he’s trying to take pitch framing to new heights and all the effort is causing the mishaps.
 
CyYoung31 said:
This year? Yeah, he’s not very good. -0.2 bWAR. Framing is important, but I think Fangraphs overrates it right now.
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But BR doesn't considerate at all. I can understand if you want to argue he's somewhere in the middle of the fWAR and bWAR. But he absolutely has not been a negative player this year overall, although he has been pretty terrible since Contreras flexed on him.
 
NYCBrave said:
There seems to be a huge misconception that the main value a catcher provides is with the bat. It's arguable that pitch framing/game calling/handling pitching staff is way more critical.
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I think people are more up in arms about leading the league in passed balls
 
CyYoung31 said:
This year? Yeah, he’s not very good. -0.2 bWAR. Framing is important, but I think Fangraphs overrates it right now.
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They currently have him at 12.3 framing runs above average which translates to about 1.2 wins. I think the reason why so many people believe these services overrate framing is because its something that is very difficult, if not impossible, to recognize with the naked eye on a consistent basis. But just because the value is hidden doesn't mean that it isn't there.
 
BeanieAntics said:
They currently have him at 12.3 framing runs above average which translates to about 1.2 wins. I think the reason why so many people believe these services overrate framing is because its something that is very difficult, if not impossible, to recognize with the naked eye on a consistent basis. But just because the value is hidden doesn't mean that it isn't there.
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True, but he has led the league in passed balls and isn't good at throwing out runners either. So the question comes down to whether or not his pitch framing and game calling have made up enough for that. I'd say it has overall but you'd still like to see him cut down on all the passed balls, etc.
 
CyYoung31 said:
It’s really the same as fWAR for position players outside of catchers, bro.
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They still use different formulas for all their components but hitting is more or less the same. Base running and fielding can be different and as we know don't including pitching framing for bWAR.
 
thewupk said:
They still use different formulas for all their components but hitting is more or less the same. Base running and fielding can be different and as we know don't including pitching framing for bWAR.
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I know that. They both get to relatively the same place with position players is what I was saying.
 
Braves1976 said:
True, but he has led the league in passed balls and isn't good at throwing out runners either. So the question comes down to whether or not his pitch framing and game calling have made up enough for that. I'd say it has overall but you'd still like to see him cut down on all the passed balls, etc.
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Its been demonstrated several times that framing is about 10x more valuable than blocking or throwing out baserunners. Its not ideal to have a guy with a ton of passed balls and a noodle arm, but if you have to choose between a framer and a thrower/blocker, you take the framer every time.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Well maybe you missed what I said about framing.
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Saw it; disregarded it, as I’m skeptical that framing is being overrated. But even if it is, I don’t think it’s overrated by enough to suggest a healthy Cervelli is more productive than Flowers circa 2019.
 
jpx7 said:
Saw it; disregarded it, as I’m skeptical that framing is being overrated. But even if it is, I don’t think it’s overrated by enough to suggest a healthy Cervelli is more productive than Flowers circa 2019.
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Leave the board bet?
 
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