Jecki Lon Memorial Star Wars Thread
- Thread starter zitothebrave
- Start date
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
The twist is actually that the Skywalkers are all actually Palpatines. The Emperor is Anakin's father. There is cannon backup for this idea in the recent Marvel Vader comic. There is a panel in the book showing the Emperor using the Force to create Anakin in Shmi's womb. Male DNA had to come from somewhere. I feel like Rey was cloned from Luke's hand, making him her father in a non-traditional way. The Skywalker Saga has always been about family. This could be one way to try and leave the events of Ep. 8 cannon and make it irrelevant at the same time, all the while satisfying both sides of fandom and getting a story back similar to what George had in mind.
striker42
Well-known member
Making Palpatine the patriarch of the Skywalker clan would be an awesome move.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
While I don't know if this is cannon, as I understand it Anakin was created in response to Palpatine and Plagueis playing with the force to create life.
I assume you're referring to Vader 25? If you are there is an important thing to consider. First is remember that Vader was basically in a force vision. Lots of things were created. For example he saw a vision of Palpatine and Obi Wan battling each other after they both say "I am your father" most likely the vision that Vader saw was the idea that Palpatine created him and controlled him from birth but he pushes past that later in the vision.
Anyway I think Rey is likely a clone or force manifestation, I think that reeks of something JJ would do. I hope the route they go is Kylo's redemption. Not in the conventional sorts. Remember that Kylo said he was going to finish what Vader started. What if what he was doing was bringing balance to the force in the end above all and he does ditch the first order after it serves it's purpose to him. It would be challenging, but it would tell a totally different and new story and that always excites me.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
The thing about Rey, she is the spitting image of Shmi and she looks a lot like Padme in ways. I just think what I posted would be a way to bring fandom back together. All the leaks I have read all converge on one point you are going to get part of what you hope for. But overall all I just hope I get something that Awkens fits seamless with Rise so I never have to watch TLJ again.
Here is why I am convinced Palpatine established the Skywalker bloodline.
What is the first thing a new despot wants?
An heir.
Why not demand Vader kill Luke in Empire?
He was the only threat at that point, but Luke was an heir. Vader does not even suspect at that point the real plan Palpatine has.
So he retrieves Luke's hand and has Rey cloned on Komino. The Kominoian cloners are the ones that likely dropped her on Jakku. It is most likely why she has no memory of them because she has no parents.
Why would Palpatine do this? To have yet another heir body to inhabit later.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
The issue with this line of thinking is it doesn't quite fit the mold of a number of things we know are canon. We know Palpatine had contingencies in place incase he was dethroned as emperor.
And there are things that maybe aren't canon like the theory of Anakin being created by the force to counter Palpatine and Plagueis. If Palpatine created Anakin intentionally his actions in Ep 1 are quite odd. Why would he create a child in the body of a slave and just let it be. Wouldn't it behooth him to have it found out by the jedi at a younger age and manipulate him for longer?
striker42
Well-known member
One problem with this theory. Why does Kylo freak out when he learns a girl escaped Jakku? If Rey was cloned by the Emperor and dropped off on Jakku, Kylo would have no idea who she was.
This is why I think it was Kylo that stranded Rey on Jakku and that Kylo was straight up lying to Rey about her parents.
My pet theory is that Rey is Luke's daughter who Luke believes was killed when the new Jedi Temple fell to Kylo and the Knights of Ren. I think Kylo, still holding a love for his cousin, saves her (remember the light saber through the chest of the guy about to kill Rey in the force vision). He secretly transports her to Jakku, uses the force to mess with her memory, and strands her there.
This explains her being the central character of the Skywalker saga, it explains why Kylo knew she was on Jakku, it explains her link to Kylo. It fits.
striker42
Well-known member
Not at all. He needed Anakin to form the bonds that Jedi aren't supposed to form. You need that emotion to turn him to the dark side.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
But did he? Obi Wan formed bonds. It's not forming bonds that makes a jedi turn. It's putting that bond over everything else that does. Again if Palpatine was manipulating anakin from a young age. It would have been easier to turn him than anything. Look at Kylo. He wasn't turned because he wasn't trained by Luke at a young age, he was turned because Snoke took an early shining to him.
striker42
Well-known member
I can think of few better ways to set up the most powerful force user in existence to turn than to have him grow up with just his mother, enduring the trials of being a slave. Then have him ripped away from his mother, the only person he's formed a bond with. Then, after he's grown up, orchestrate his mother's kidnapping and murder to cause the extreme anger, fear, and aggression necessary to turn him to the dark side.
Also, there's nothing that says Palpatine wasn't pulling strings on Tatooine to steer Anakin.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
THere's nothing that says that, but there's nothing that says it he did. Palpatine being that out there in the open that early was against what he and Plagueis wanted. Consider the Maul comics where he basically chastised Maul for wanting to take the war right to the Jedi.
I think the issue is that to put Palpatine to all the things that leaks and wants want him to be is to elevate him to a god like power. Which is absurd.
Though I will say to VB's point making this about Palpatine is a possible, it's been called the Skywalker saga but if Palpatine has been alive this whole time and pulling strings in the first order it would set up the saga being about the Skywalkers fighting Darth Sidious and it would set up a return to the "good guys" for Kylo if his power is removed from him because of Palpatine coming back he would see that as an affront to what Vader started.
I think the issue is that to put Palpatine to all the things that leaks and wants want him to be is to elevate him to a god like power. Which is absurd.
Though I will say to VB's point making this about Palpatine is a possible, it's been called the Skywalker saga but if Palpatine has been alive this whole time and pulling strings in the first order it would set up the saga being about the Skywalkers fighting Darth Sidious and it would set up a return to the "good guys" for Kylo if his power is removed from him because of Palpatine coming back he would see that as an affront to what Vader started.
striker42
Well-known member
I think the idea that Palpatine was responsible for Anakin and was manipulating his destiny from the beginning fits really well.
First, you have the fact that Anakin "had no father." The original explanation was, IIRC, that the Force spontaneously created Anakin in response to what Plagueis and Palpatine were doing with the Force. But that's no longer canon. So an explanation that Palpatine either used the Force to create Anakin or else sexed up Anakin's mom and used the Force to make her forget would work. I prefer the idea that he conceived Anakin through the Force and that explains Anakin's power.
Next is the fact that Anakin was missed by the Jedi. The explanation was that it was a result of him being born on an outer rim planet. But you'd think as powerful a force user as Anakin would have been sensed. Finding Force sensitive children was something the Jedi had a lot of experience doing. Considering his power, missing Anakin because he was a little far away doesn't make much sense. However, if Palpatine was using his power to shield Anakin from the Jedi (possible as he shielded himself at point blank range), that makes sense.
Then there's the fact that Naboo and Tatooine are supposed to be close together. When Padme's ship was damaged in Phantom Menace and couldn't make it very far, it made it to Tatooine. Keeping Anakin at a place that Palpatine could easily reach from Naboo (his home world) also makes sense.
Then there's the fact that Palpatine would have wanted to set up Anakin for as much emotional pain and fear as possible. If he'd been taken as a baby by the Jedi, there would have been none of the pain and fear of being taken from his mother to a strange place. Remember, Yoda sensed fear strongly in him. This would be a great way to set Anakin up to turn.
Next you have the fact that every Force user in the Skywalker line has either gone to the dark side (Anakin, Kylo) or been close (Luke). If they make Rey a Skywalker, the previews seem to indicate she'll be strongly tempted to the dark side. While all Jedi are tempted by the dark side to one degree or another, the Skywalkers seem to be particularly strong in the dark side. Being the progeny of a Sith Lord would explain this.
Honestly, the more I think about it the more you could tie the entire saga together by making Palpatine responsible for the creation of the Skywalker line. He'd end up being the overarching villain in all three trilogies. It makes sense.
I also don't think you have to give Palpatine god like powers to make it possible. Just make him responsible for creating Anakin and the rest of it is just scheming, which we know he's good at.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
The issue with a lot of your theory is that it's 100% speculative and what isn't speculative is disproven by canon.
First let's talk about the Dark side temptation. There's a canon explanation as to why the Chosen one would be tempted by the Dark Side, because part of bringing Balance to the force meant harnessing both sides. While they're strong in the dark they're strong in the light. Anakin could control the dark and the light on Mortis equally well. He had no preference or stronger qualities. His turn to the darkside was a personal flaw, not a tendency.
As I recall with the events of the film was less that Naboo was close to Tatooine but it was the first planet with a Spaceport that would be 100% out of the sphere of the Trade Federation influence as it is controlled by the Hutts. There certainly were other planets that Palpatine could have worked hard on his progeny that were closer and still could have been the same basic result. Personally I think the moronic choice of Tatooine as Anakin's birthplace is something that doesn't make sense given it being Luke's birthplace.
The issue is how does he determine that Qui Gon finds Anakin? Especially since in the film he clearly wants them eradicated. Sending Maul to kill everyone on the shuttle and capture Amidala. It contradicts what we believe to have happened. Wouldn't it have been easier if he wanted Anakin as his apprentice all along to just train him in secret from youth like he did Maul? It fails the logic test. I think the non-canon explanation is the much better explanation that the **** Plagueis was doing with Palpatine manipulating midichlorians to extend his life was reacted to by the living force creating Anakin, then Palpatine did what he did best, manipulated it to his advantage.
First let's talk about the Dark side temptation. There's a canon explanation as to why the Chosen one would be tempted by the Dark Side, because part of bringing Balance to the force meant harnessing both sides. While they're strong in the dark they're strong in the light. Anakin could control the dark and the light on Mortis equally well. He had no preference or stronger qualities. His turn to the darkside was a personal flaw, not a tendency.
As I recall with the events of the film was less that Naboo was close to Tatooine but it was the first planet with a Spaceport that would be 100% out of the sphere of the Trade Federation influence as it is controlled by the Hutts. There certainly were other planets that Palpatine could have worked hard on his progeny that were closer and still could have been the same basic result. Personally I think the moronic choice of Tatooine as Anakin's birthplace is something that doesn't make sense given it being Luke's birthplace.
The issue is how does he determine that Qui Gon finds Anakin? Especially since in the film he clearly wants them eradicated. Sending Maul to kill everyone on the shuttle and capture Amidala. It contradicts what we believe to have happened. Wouldn't it have been easier if he wanted Anakin as his apprentice all along to just train him in secret from youth like he did Maul? It fails the logic test. I think the non-canon explanation is the much better explanation that the **** Plagueis was doing with Palpatine manipulating midichlorians to extend his life was reacted to by the living force creating Anakin, then Palpatine did what he did best, manipulated it to his advantage.
striker42
Well-known member
It's not totally speculative as we know the Emperor is heavily connected with Rise of Skywalker so there's almost certainly going to be something revealed about him.
Being able to channel both sides equally well still means Skywalkers have far more dark side ability than your average Jedi. And perhaps the Emperor wanted the chosen one to be created. Maybe he suspected that balance would require the destruction of the Jedi order. Maybe he thought he could co-opt the chosen one by creating that flaw that turned him to the dark side. There's any number of ways to play this.
Tatooine was chosen because it was the only planet nearby that had no Trade Federation presence as it was controlled by the Hutts. There were plenty of planets in the galaxy that would have been a far better choice but they had limited range due to the damage they took. So Tatooine has to be close to Naboo. Also, being controlled by the Hutts, you could expect minimal Jedi presence. It's the perfect place to hide something from the Jedi order.
It wouldn't be hard to come up with an excuse for why he sent Maul. The Emperor was an incredible schemer. He had plans within plans within plans. One explanation just off the top of my head is that he knew Maul would fail. By exposing Maul he drug a red herring across the trail and sent the Jedi off hunting down Sith apprentices while he ascended to power. Sending Maul also created a greater sense of panic in Padme. I don't think the plan was ever to actually capture Padme. He needed Padme free and in front of the Senate to clear his path to the Chancellorship. He also needed her scared and easily influenced.
The Plagueis and Palpatine thing makes more internal sense but it's also far less narratively satisfying. I think the temptation of making the Skywalkers all descended from Palpatine might be too great. Remember how much the new trilogy has been echoing the original. Starkiller Base/Death Star, secret base holding the Rebels being invaded by enemy forces, the young Jedi seeking the old Jedi in solitary exile for training, etc. The one thing missing is the big parentage reveal. Having Palpatine reveal he's Anakin's father and created the Skywalker line just fits what they've been going for.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
They don't have any more "dark side ability" they have more force ability. Period. Dark Side is part of the force. As far as Anakin goes, his turn was pretty well broadcast in the Clone Wars. It was done masterfully by Palpatine, he deserves all the credit.
It's not expressly close to Naboo. It's Close to Naboo like Hoth is Close to Takodana or Endor. You know what planets are close, Mustafar and Dagobah. As far as Jedi interference, Jedi weren't really involved in that much because that was how the order was ran. There were plenty of force sensitives and beings who slipped through the catch of the jedi. It wouldn't make sense for him to choose Tatooine when he could easily just go to Malastare it's much closer and easier to manipulate given proximity.
It would be hard to come up with it. His plan for capturing Padme was to draw ire and shame to Valorum so he could move further up. As well as to highlight the "failures" of the republic Senate. ALl while garnering sympathy. He was able to adapt his plans with Amidala there. Again, it's pretty clear what he was doing, it wasn't getting the Jedi to wind up on Tatooine to find Anakin, that is actually impossible. Seriously you're saying that he was gonna bet on the ability of the Trade Federation to not kill the Jedi, not capture Amidala, have her barely escape, so on so forth.
You're right there's a lot of echoes. ANd I think the reality is the big parent reveal is likely Mara Jade and Luke actually being Rey's father but not knowing it.
It's not expressly close to Naboo. It's Close to Naboo like Hoth is Close to Takodana or Endor. You know what planets are close, Mustafar and Dagobah. As far as Jedi interference, Jedi weren't really involved in that much because that was how the order was ran. There were plenty of force sensitives and beings who slipped through the catch of the jedi. It wouldn't make sense for him to choose Tatooine when he could easily just go to Malastare it's much closer and easier to manipulate given proximity.
It would be hard to come up with it. His plan for capturing Padme was to draw ire and shame to Valorum so he could move further up. As well as to highlight the "failures" of the republic Senate. ALl while garnering sympathy. He was able to adapt his plans with Amidala there. Again, it's pretty clear what he was doing, it wasn't getting the Jedi to wind up on Tatooine to find Anakin, that is actually impossible. Seriously you're saying that he was gonna bet on the ability of the Trade Federation to not kill the Jedi, not capture Amidala, have her barely escape, so on so forth.
You're right there's a lot of echoes. ANd I think the reality is the big parent reveal is likely Mara Jade and Luke actually being Rey's father but not knowing it.
striker42
Well-known member
It makes sense for Palpatine to create the chosen one and hide him on a planet outside the control of the Republic. Why take the chance of the Jedi finding him. Hide him on a Hutt world, use the dark side to screen him from the Jedi, and plant the pain in his life that will eventually cause him to turn and destroy the Jedi. So much of what caused Anakin to turn was seeded early on. His deep connection to his mother (making it devastating when she was killed), the fear at having his life turned upside down when he was taken Jedi and being old enough for that to stay with him, the pain of working as a slave, etc. It hardly ended there but without that beginning, Anakin doesn't turn.
I don't think a comprehensive map of the Star Wars galaxy exists so there is no way to see for sure, but the strong implication was that Tatooine was a close by planet. Their ship was damaged leaving Naboo so they had limited range. The only planet within range that had no Trade Federation presence was Tatooine. So it's not much of a leap to say Tatooine was the closest planet to Naboo with no Republic presence. No Republic presence means less chance of a stray Jedi getting close enough to sense Anakin in spite of countermeasures. There were likely closer systems but those systems had much higher chances of Jedi visiting.
If Tatooine was halfway across the galaxy and yet within range, then any number of friendly planets would have been within range. The options were limited by their limited range. Ergo, Tatooine had to be close to Naboo.
Making Palpatine the creator of Anakin would be a new invention and so would require them to retcon a lot. I agree with your take on what they were doing at the time and that it would have been impossible for him to force the Jedi into finding Anakin. But we've seen Palpatine is a master at changing plans on the fly.
And there are still any number of ways to explain sending Maul. They don't have to make as much sense as the original, they just have to make enough sense.
How about this for an explanation. When the Jedi stumbled upon Anakin, he decided to try to pull the plug on the whole chosen one attempt and have Maul kill Anakin rather than let him fall into the hands of the Jedi. However, upon sensing Anakin's fear when Anakin arrives on Coruscant, Palpatine decides that the Jedi taking Anakin actually helps the plan. So he adjusts on the fly and starts taking a more direct hand in turning Anakin.
Or maybe the chosen one as an apprentice was a side project that he wasn't going to let stand in the way of his ascension to Chancellor. So if Anakin was killed in the process, so be it. Sith are not known for sentimentality.
You think they'll bring Mara Jade back into canon?
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
There are plenty of maps that exist. Plenty have been made over time. Remember that because they don't on the Star Wars website doesn't mean they don't exist. IIRC swgalaxymap is basically an updated version of the Essential Atlas. Which as I recall is official canon. And the fact that it was the first planet that wasn't under trade federation control, doesn't concern why Palpatine would go there. It wouldn't be a simple diversion to go there, it was well out of his way. As far as republic control, all this is debateable. It would be the ultimate in ****ty revisionist writing. It's so lazy I would think JK Rowlings wrote it.
The options were limited, given the nature of the mid rim in the republic. There's a reason a lot of mid rim and outer rim worlds joined the CIS, there were lots of them under the Trade Federation control. As well as they just in general were ignored by the republic as they weren't Core or Inner Rim. That has little to do with Palpatine's choice to go there and how it would make sense. If he could hide his location right next to the Jedi why couldn't he have a hidden pupil on Naboo? Along with the fact that he had a hidden apprentice in Maul.
The issue is that Episode 1 negates the idea of Palpatine setting all the plans in motion. It makes his actions of sending Maul, trying to capture Padme, etc. The perhaps final line of the film "we shall watch you with great interest" or whatever. Episode 1 makes Palpatine create Anakin intentionally a farcical plan. Accidental, that you can have.
As far as what happens with Anakin, Palpatine was a king of having multiple plans, He wanted Maul to have his own bred apprentice. He lost him to Kenobi and never intended to lose him. But it happened. He recruited Dooku to stage the clone wars where he then groomed Anakin, if Anakin rejected his overtures, he would have worked on a different apprentice. Order 66 would have still wiped out the Jedi and he could have still created the Inquisitors to hunt Jedi after the events of Order 66.
I don't know if she'll be back, but it's certainly something the could go for. Especially if they're bringing Palpatine back into the fold in someway, after all she was the Emperor's hand.
The options were limited, given the nature of the mid rim in the republic. There's a reason a lot of mid rim and outer rim worlds joined the CIS, there were lots of them under the Trade Federation control. As well as they just in general were ignored by the republic as they weren't Core or Inner Rim. That has little to do with Palpatine's choice to go there and how it would make sense. If he could hide his location right next to the Jedi why couldn't he have a hidden pupil on Naboo? Along with the fact that he had a hidden apprentice in Maul.
The issue is that Episode 1 negates the idea of Palpatine setting all the plans in motion. It makes his actions of sending Maul, trying to capture Padme, etc. The perhaps final line of the film "we shall watch you with great interest" or whatever. Episode 1 makes Palpatine create Anakin intentionally a farcical plan. Accidental, that you can have.
As far as what happens with Anakin, Palpatine was a king of having multiple plans, He wanted Maul to have his own bred apprentice. He lost him to Kenobi and never intended to lose him. But it happened. He recruited Dooku to stage the clone wars where he then groomed Anakin, if Anakin rejected his overtures, he would have worked on a different apprentice. Order 66 would have still wiped out the Jedi and he could have still created the Inquisitors to hunt Jedi after the events of Order 66.
I don't know if she'll be back, but it's certainly something the could go for. Especially if they're bringing Palpatine back into the fold in someway, after all she was the Emperor's hand.
striker42
Well-known member
What's interesting about Mara Jade is that they already brought the other major character introduced in that book series back into canon, Grand Admiral Thrawn.
I still wish they'd done some take on the Heir to the Empire series for the final trilogy. Grand Admiral Thrawn would have been a great villain.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Interesting that Star Wars teased the next big book saga with no real details, Project Luminous seems to hint at something
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
I am almost positive her male DNA comes from Luke's severed hand. The easiest way to explain him not knowing her. DC Comics pulled off a similar story with Terry McGinnis Batman in 2039. This was before Damien Wayne was created and it was revealed Terry was genetically Bruce's son.