Around Baseball Offseason Edition - Derek Jeter will retire at seasons end

Don't really understand the obsessing over pFister. He's a decent 3-4 whose numbers should receive a healthy bounce by switching divisions. Nothing special. I think the Tigers' haul is a reflection of his value.

It is, however, quite enjoyable to see people get this squirrely over a Nats move.
 
The last 2 trades add up to some pretty distressing news for the Braves...

Fister is the exact type of starter the Braves could have used in the rotation, and it looks like he was obtained for a very mediocre package. It seems Wren has far less resources at his disposal than we previously thought. Or Wren didn't even know Fister was available...I'm not sure which of those two possible scenarios worries me more.

Johnson is obviously not as good as Kimbrel, but he is one of the top closers and was getting very expensive. All the O's got in exchange for him was a guy who might not even stick as a MLB regular. That is a very underwhelming return (almost a salary dump), and makes me seriously question what Wren can hope to get for Kimbrel on the trade market next offseason.
 
The last 2 trades add up to some pretty distressing news for the Braves...

Fister is the exact type of starter the Braves could have used in the rotation, and it looks like he was obtained for a very mediocre package. It seems Wren has far less resources at his disposal than we previously thought. Or Wren didn't even know Fister was available...I'm not sure which of those two possible scenarios worries me more.

Johnson is obviously not as good as Kimbrel, but he is one of the top closers and was getting very expensive. All the O's got in exchange for him was a guy who might not even stick as a MLB regular. That is a very underwhelming return (almost a salary dump), and makes me seriously question what Wren can hope to get for Kimbrel on the trade market next offseason.

Yup. With Kimbrel, the best course might be to hold on to him and get the draft pick.
 
Don't really understand the obsessing over pFister. He's a decent 3-4 whose numbers should receive a healthy bounce by switching divisions. Nothing special. I think the Tigers' haul is a reflection of his value.

It is, however, quite enjoyable to see people get this squirrely over a Nats move.

Considering a rental Matt Garza netted Olt... this deal is puzzling.
 
It was far, far from a steal.

Fister is better than you're giving him credit for... the package was very mediocre and when comparing the hauls gained recently from mediocre pitchers... it was definitely a steal... Fister is also pretty cheap and under control for a bit.
 
This makes no sense for the Tigers, I have no clue what they are thinking. I can't imagine other teams wouldn't be willing to top that package. Fister is a better pitcher than James Shields, who netted Wil Myers. Better than Jake Peavy, who netted Iglesias. Better than Nolasco, who just got a huge contract. Good article on fangraphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/nationals-steal-doug-fister-from-tigers/

Getting away from that Tigers defense and out of the AL could benefit him as well.

LOL, homers gonna homer.

Fister aint better than Shields.
 
Red Sox sign AJ Pierzynski.

Tigers signing Joe Nathan.

Dodgers re-signing Brian Wilson.
 
I always thought the return on Shields was excessive and an anomaly. Now we have something at the other end of the spectrum. The fair prices for a top pitcher with a couple years of contractual control should be somewhere around the middle of that range. Of course, the Rays will try to spin things differently when teams come asking about David Price. Caveat emptor.
 
They gave up a LOOGY, a utility player, and a so-so SP prospect.

Fister could have TJ (wont happen) and they'd still win the deal.

I think that's a gross undervaluation of Ray, and a mislabeling of Krol. Lombardozzi is an interesting piece. The Tigers gained a top 3 pitching prospect, and an instant swing-man who could potentially blossom into a starter outside of the relatively stacked Washington system. Both are also lefties, who seem to be infinitely more valuable in the AL East than in any other division in baseball. Those who are calling this a steal don't seem to be looking at how Krol and Ray will be utilized with Detroit. pFister is a decent pitcher, but it must be reemphasized that he's just a middle of the rotation starter (at a nice price point, for sure.)
 
Btw, wasn't there a consensus a year ago that the Gnats did very well on the Dennard Span trade. These things often move in a way that upends the initial consensus.
 
I always thought the return on Shields was excessive and an anomaly. Now we have something at the end of the spectrum. The fair prices for a top pitcher with a couple years of contractual control should be somewhere around the middle of that range. Of course, the Rays will try to spin things differently when teams come asking about David Price. Caveat emptor.

Would we have been saying the same thing if Shields led KC to a championship this past season? Moore believed his team was on the threshold of something big and made a move to cement his starting rotation -- at a very reasonable financial price. Would I have given up Myers for Shields? Hell no. But it's worth waiting to see the full return on Shields before casting stones -- do they trade him this year, or does he lead them into the promised land?
 
Would we have been saying the same thing if Shields led KC to a championship this past season? Moore believed his team was on the threshold of something big and made a move to cement his starting rotation -- at a very reasonable financial price. Would I have given up Myers for Shields? Hell no. But it's worth waiting to see the full return on Shields before casting stones -- do they trade him this year, or does he lead them into the promised land?

I wouldn't give much weight to whether a team won a world series in judging a transaction. Suppose Shields blows out his arm and KC wins the world series? Good trade or not. Absurd to given any weight to the team's winning a world series in that case. Was the Hanrahan or Andrew Bailey trade a good one for the Red Sox? They won the world series after all.

Was the Zito signing a good one for the Giants. The won two world series with him.
 
As fangraphs pointed out, Fister has been a top 15 pitcher in baseball over the past 3 years and you could argue top 10 when you account for him being a ground ball pitcher on a team with horrendous infield defense. If you want to argue Shields is better, have at it, not going to waste my time at that; at worst they are pretty even. Just to use as an example, Fister (an extreme ground ball pitcher) had a babip on ground balls of .287 last year. He's going to the Nationals were their starters had the following BABIP on ground balls:

Strasburg .239
Gio .215
Zimmermann .193
Haren .296
Jordan .253

How are you coming to the conclusion that Ray is a top 3 prospect for the Nats? Based on John Sickels last year he wasn't ranked in the top 20. I actually think Sickels was low on him and BA had him as the 5th best. I think he's a solid C+ type prospect, not anywhere close to sniffing a top 100 list.

Miss labeling of Krol? How do you determine he's a swing man in Detroit? He was utilized as a LOOGY bc he can't get right handed hitters out. This is a guy that was a throw in player to be named later to go with A.J. Cole (a top 3 prospect) for Morse a year ago.

Lombardozzi is a utility man that could have trouble making the Tigers roster. He can hold a glove at 3B and LF, but is essentially a 2B (can't play SS). He's hit .264/.297/.342 in 755 career plate appearences for the Nats. Probably cant be a starter bc he doesnt get on base, hit for power, or field very well. What exactly makes him interesting?

Either way, to get a top 15 (heck you can say top 30 if you want) starting pitcher with 2 more years of arby control for that is crazy. Even if the prospect was a 25-50 ish prospect instead of Ray, it would have been a steal. I guess the extreme Detroit optimist can believe that Lombo turns into Infante, Krol turns into Venters, and Ray becomes a number 3 starter and Fister is a top 50 pitcher in baseball? Does that even make the trade fair?
 
Btw, wasn't there a consensus a year ago that the Gnats did very well on the Dennard Span trade. These things often move in a way that upends the initial consensus.

That was a very fair trade, one that you could understand both sides. B- type pitching prospect for a starting CF.(3.5 Win player)
 
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