Braves Sign Will Smith

nsacpi said:
A trade with the Dodgers for Turner (assuming they acquire someone else to play third) would make a lot of sense. One-year deal at a good price for a still very productive power hitter.
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It feels odd to predict low risk short term acquisitions after AA just gave a 30 year old BP arm 3 years
 
Enscheff said:
It feels odd to predict low risk short term acquisitions after AA just gave a 30 year old BP arm 3 years
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I'm ok with the Smith deal. Not thrilled but ok.

There are a number of starting pitchers on the market who are 30 something who will be getting 3 years or more this off-season. Personally, I was hoping to bring back Keuchel on a 3 year deal. It would cost more than Smith, but he is a starting pitcher and that's the way it goes. It will be interesting to see what guys like Keuchel, Ryu, Bumgarner and Wheeler get. Yes, Wheeler is slightly younger but next season is going to be his age 30 season.
 
Enscheff said:
They have nothing to show for it?

The Dodgers have an elite team making tons of money moving forward, and leadership isn't being fired.

The Cubs and Red Sox have a declining team moving forward, but a flag to look at...and leadership is being fired.

Stare at that flag though...yay!
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I don't really care what they look like moving forward. We're talking about past moves, and those moves clearly helped them win the WS. I'll say it again, I'd much rather have been a Sox/Cubs fan over the last 7 years than the Dodgers.

Suppose you could see 1 year into all possible futures and you knew the only way to guarantee a WS in 2020 is if we traded Albies, Anderson and Fried for Lindor and Kluber. Could you justify not making that trade when it guarantees you a WS title, even if it meant you may not be as good in 3 years?

There isn't one player I wouldn't trade if it guaranteed a WS title in 2020. Obviously there is no way to guarantee a title. But with the gift of hindsight, we can absolutely tell the Cubs and Sox made certain moves that absolutely allowed them to win the WS, despite it closing their windows early. There is nothing wrong with closing your window early IF it gets you your desired outcome.
 
This one is weird and seems so out of character for AA.

My guess is he knows the cost of acquiring a legit closer via trade after talking to so many teams last year and he decided cash and the pick were worth sacrificing as opposed to top prospects.

I’d assume JD is gone and AA knows that he’ll be recouping a pick.

I doubt we’re looking at any other free agent that has a QO attached
 
Enscheff said:
Yeah, this notion of looking at things with benefit of hindsight as justification for moves is the epitome of small minded people.

The Cubs went all in and won a WS at the expense of future seasons. So did the Red Sox. Just because it worked out in 2 instances does not prove "going for it" is a good strategy.

What the Cubs and Red Sox did prove was that "going for it" is costing leadership their jobs fairly quickly after they "went for it"...even though the moves actually won a WS.

I guess staring at those flags isn't as amazing for as long as folks claim.
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I never said it was a good strategy. But you acting like their current situations aren't worth a WS title is dumb. I guarantee none of their fans would trade that WS title for a better team today. Well may be the Sox fans since they've won it a few times the last 12 years. But certainly not the Cubs fans.
 
Carp said:
I don't really care what they look like moving forward. We're talking about past moves, and those moves clearly helped them win the WS. I'll say it again, I'd much rather have been a Sox/Cubs fan over the last 7 years than the Dodgers.

Suppose you could see 1 year into all possible futures and you knew the only way to guarantee a WS in 2020 is if we traded Albies, Anderson and Fried for Lindor and Kluber. Could you justify not making that trade when it guarantees you a WS title, even if it meant you may not be as good in 3 years?

There isn't one player I wouldn't trade if it guaranteed a WS title in 2020. Obviously there is no way to guarantee a title. But with the gift of hindsight, we can absolutely tell the Cubs and Sox made certain moves that absolutely allowed them to win the WS, despite it closing their windows early. There is nothing wrong with closing your window early IF it gets you your desired outcome.
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Evaluating results over process is a terrible way to manage anything, and is extremely small minded.

It’s why Maddon and Dombrowski were fired.

If you bet $100 on a coin flip with the hopes of winning $50, you made the wrong choice whether or not you end up winning.
 
nsacpi said:
I'm ok with the Smith deal. Not thrilled but ok.

There are a number of starting pitchers on the market who are 30 something who will be getting 3 years or more this off-season. Personally, I was hoping to bring back Keuchel on a 3 year deal. It would cost more than Smith, but he is a starting pitcher and that's the way it goes. It will be interesting to see what guys like Keuchel, Ryu, Bumgarner and Wheeler get. Yes, Wheeler is slightly younger but next season is going to be his age 30 season.
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I don't want DK at all, tbh, and certainly not on a multi-year deal. Rather have Hamels or even Bumgarner over DK if the cost was equal.
 
Yeah give me the Dodgers model even though they havent won a WS yet. Cubs and Red Sox windows have closed for the most part, but at least they have flags to look at when they're out of playoff contention.
 
Heyward said:
Yeah give me the Dodgers model even though they havent won a WS yet. Cubs and Red Sox windows have closed for the most part, but at least they have flags to look at when they're out of playoff contention.
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Flags fly forever!! Derrrpppp!!

Let’s gather up at the local pub in October to watch the flag together since the team isn’t playing baseball!!

Derrrpp!!

Isn’t that what the 9 remaining Marlins fans do all season?

Deerherreppp!!
 
Carp said:
1. I don't really care what they look like moving forward. We're talking about past moves, and those moves clearly helped them win the WS. I'll say it again, I'd much rather have been a Sox/Cubs fan over the last 7 years than the Dodgers.

2. Suppose you could see 1 year into all possible futures and you knew the only way to guarantee a WS in 2020 is if we traded Albies, Anderson and Fried for Lindor and Kluber. Could you justify not making that trade when it guarantees you a WS title, even if it meant you may not be as good in 3 years?

3. There isn't one player I wouldn't trade if it guaranteed a WS title in 2020. Obviously there is no way to guarantee a title. But with the gift of hindsight, we can absolutely tell the Cubs and Sox made certain moves that absolutely allowed them to win the WS, despite it closing their windows early. There is nothing wrong with closing your window early IF it gets you your desired outcome.
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1. That is an awfully convenient point of view when we're talking about the ramifications of "going for it"... Why not trade every single future asset you have when the future basically doesn't exist in your mind?

2. No. No I would not. Because I don't want one world series, I want as many as possible. By extention, I want as large of a competitive window as possible. I'm not giving up the 2nd or 3rd most valuable asset in baseball plus two high upside starters to guarantee a single championship. 2020 might be great, 2021-Whenever would really suck.

3. To me, that is an insane point of view. You're telling me that you would trade Albies and Acuna with their ridiculously team friendly contracts (possibly the two most valuable assets in baseball) plus a variety of different long term players of various values for a bunch of players on one year contracts that would guarantee a 2020 world series. Because that is the logical extreme of that statement. Sorry, not doing that.

We should also point out that the Chapman trade didn't guarantee anything and its absolutely possible that the Cubs would have won it all without him. On the other hand, I can almost guarantee that the Cubs window would be longer if they hadn't made the Quintana and Chapman trade.
 
Enscheff said:
Flags fly forever!! Derrrpppp!!

Let’s gather up at the local pub in October to watch the flag together since the team isn’t playing baseball!!

Derrrpp!!

Isn’t that what the 9 remaining Marlins fans do all season?

Deerherreppp!!
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Was Heyward's post sarcasm?
 
“Hey guys! Let’s all sit down and watch a live feed of last year’s WS banner”

Said no Red Sox fan in 2019.
 
Enscheff said:
Evaluating results over process is a terrible way to manage anything, and is extremely small minded.

It’s why Maddon and Dombrowski were fired.
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Again, I never said going "all in" is a good plan. Certainly it's a poor long term plan. But clearly, forgoing the long term and focusing on the short term yielded the results the Cubs and Sox were looking for (i.e a WS title). That's the only point I'm making. Keep poking fun with the flags comment all you want, but again, I guarantee you that Cubs fans wouldn't trade that WS title for a team better team now. I can't imagine why anyone would, unless you're a Yankees fan that has seen them win a WS title on average once every 6 years since the MLB was created.
 
“Hey, lets fire the GM after not making the playoffs 1 year after winning the WS”

Said the Red Sox in 2019 after they got bored of staring at the 2018 WS flag.
 
Enscheff said:
“Hey guys! Let’s all sit down and watch a live feed of last year’s WS banner”

Said no Red Sox fan in 2019.
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Hey guys, remember that feeling when we won the WS? How about we actually never have had that feeling so we can may be have that feeling at some point in the future.... said no fan ever.
 
Carp said:
I never said it was a good strategy. But you acting like their current situations aren't worth a WS title is dumb. I guarantee none of their fans would trade that WS title for a better team today. Well may be the Sox fans since they've won it a few times the last 12 years. But certainly not the Cubs fans.
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Given the Cubs' circumstances, I can understand why they made the moves that they made. But those circumstances are pretty unique and it shouldn't be a model that is celebrated. If one ball bounces the wrong way in game 7 against the Indians, then we're looking back at the Chapman trade with FAR more skepticism than most people currently do. That's why Scheff's point about process over results is right. You can get the results that you desire, but that doesn't mean the process was smart.
 
Carp said:
Again, I never said going "all in" is a good plan. Certainly it's a poor long term plan. But clearly, forgoing the long term and focusing on the short term yielded the results the Cubs and Sox were looking for (i.e a WS title). That's the only point I'm making. Keep poking fun with the flags comment all you want, but again, I guarantee you that Cubs fans wouldn't trade that WS title for a team better team now. I can't imagine why anyone would, unless you're a Yankees fan that has seen them win a WS title on average once every 6 years since the MLB was created.
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Lol you guarantee it? Let’s create a nationwide poll in 2-3 years when the Cubs suck and the the entire FO is dumped.

We will see how much they love staring at that flag when they have nothing to watch.
 
Carp said:
Again, I never said going "all in" is a good plan. Certainly it's a poor long term plan. But clearly, forgoing the long term and focusing on the short term yielded the results the Cubs and Sox were looking for (i.e a WS title). That's the only point I'm making. Keep poking fun with the flags comment all you want, but again, I guarantee you that Cubs fans wouldn't trade that WS title for a team better team now. I can't imagine why anyone would, unless you're a Yankees fan that has seen them win a WS title on average once every 6 years since the MLB was created.
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I know some Cubs fans who wish they didnt do the Chapman trade, having Gleyber with some of their current core would have extended their window. Same with Eloy plus whatever they gave up for Quintana.

In 2-3 years if they're a middling 80 win team, i can just about guarantee they wouldnt do that deal.
 
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