Official Offseason Thread

zbhargrove said:
Braves re-sign Martin for 2 years $14 million... somethings gotta be up with us putting this much money towards the pen
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Wow. So who would of guessed that we would have spent almost 23 million of our money on the bullpen? I think the budget is a lot more than what we were thinking. I’m gonna say around 160 million. It almost has to be at this point. But the bullpen should be insane next year.
 
Enscheff I am sorry to bother again! But is the a list of who are the best framing catchers? I think if we going we the baby pitchers we should sign Grandal or who ever is the best possible framing catcher.
 
Just to stoke the fires a little bit...

When looking at MadBum's starts in the second half last year (when he'd had time to work back into his groove), he made 15 starts after July 13th (including one in Coors, one in Boston, and one in Oakland) and gave the Giants the following...

96 IP with 81 hits, 19 walks, and 13 HRs allowed. That's a 3.75 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, 8.3 K/9, 1.8 BB/9, and 1.2 HR/9.

You can argue that he's not the "Ace" everyone wants, but there's not much doubt that he'd be a substantial upgrade over both Keuchel and Julio. Trading for Kluber certainly makes more sense than giving Bumgarner a 3-4 year deal and giving up another pick, but if they honestly believe that they're going to get what they've gotten from Folty during his good stretches and they still want to keep Wright/Wilson/Anderson/Muller in the long run you can make the argument that that could be the best way to extend your window.

AA's bullpen manipulations just give me that feeling that something big involving multiple pieces is in the works, maybe Folty's even part of that.

Does Folty, Ender, Flowers, Greene, and Touki ($21.8 million) get you Contreras and Happ (~ $5.5 million)? Yeah they'd be taking on money, but where else are they going to get a SP to replace Hamels this year, a Gold Glove CF, a C to replace Contreras, a setup guy for Kimbrel, and a SP that could be ready to step in and replace Quintana next year for $16 million?

The Martin signing pushes us to 39 guys on the roster. That kind of deal would knock that back down to 36, leaving you room to sign Moustakas and potentially trade for another SP or sign one even if you signed MadBum as well.

Maybe AA could sell Jon Daniels on the fact that Riley is a great fit for them as a 1B/3B/LF/DH type and Daniels would part with Lynn to get him. If they didn't throw a Brinks truck at Rendon and signed Donaldson instead, a Donaldson/Gallo/Riley 3-5 might look pretty good. If they're going to spend big money anyway since they're opening their new park, they could throw money at Pineda and Wheeler and would wind up with a pretty tough rotation too. Adding those two SPs, Donaldson, and Riley while taking away Lynn's salary would only push them into the $140 million range according to Sportrac.



Pie in the sky stuff - of course - but if AA could make two deals like that he'd still come out of this winter controlling Pache, Waters, Anderson, Wright, Wilson, Wentz, and both Catcher prospects while SERIOUSLY increasing our chances to contend for the next 2-3 years. That'd be a *elluva feat.
 
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Braves fans in 2018 off-season: Why didn’t we spend more on the bullpen? What are we doing? Why did we give Donaldson so much money when the bullpen is clearly a greater need than third base? Get off your ass and sign Kimbrel, Alex.
Braves fans in 2019 off-season: Why are we spending so much on the bullpen? What are we doing? Why are we giving so much to relievers when third base is clearly a much greater need than the bullpen? Get off your ass and sign Donaldson, Alex

Lol someone wrote that in other page.
 
clvclv said:
Just to stoke the fires a little bit...

When looking at MadBum's starts in the second half last year (when he'd had time to work back into his groove), he made 15 starts after July 13th (including one in Coors, one in Boston, and one in Oakland) and gave the Giants the following...

96 IP with 81 hits, 19 walks, and 13 HRs allowed. That's a 3.75 ERA, 1.04 WHIP, 8.3 K/9, 1.8 BB/9, and 1.2 HR/9.

You can argue that he's not the "Ace" everyone wants, but there's not much doubt that he'd be a substantial upgrade over both Keuchel and Julio. Trading for Kluber certainly makes more sense than giving Bumgarner a 3-4 year deal and giving up another pick, but if they honestly believe that they're going to get what they've gotten from Folty during his good stretches and they still want to keep Wright/Wilson/Anderson/Wentz in the long run you can make the argument that that could be the best way to extend your window.

AA's bullpen manipulations just give me that feeling that something big involving multiple pieces is in the works, maybe Folty's even part of that.

Does Folty, Ender, Flowers, Greene, and Touki ($21.8 million) get you Contreras and Happ (~ $5.5 million)? Yeah they'd be taking on money, but where else are they going to get a SP to replace Hamels this year, a Gold Glove CF, a C to replace Contreras, a setup guy for Kimbrel, and a SP that could be ready to step in and replace Quintana next year for $16 million?

The Martin signing pushes us to 39 guys on the roster. That kind of deal would knock that back down to 36, leaving you room to sign Moustakas and potentially trade for another SP or sign one even if you signed MadBum as well.

Maybe AA could sell Jon Daniels on the fact that Riley is a great fit for them as a 1B/3B/LF/DH type and Daniels would part with Lynn to get him. If they didn't throw a Brinks truck at Rendon and signed Donaldson instead, a Donaldson/Gallo/Riley 3-5 might look pretty good. If they're going to spend big money anyway since they're opening their new park, they could throw money at Pineda and Wheeler and would wind up with a pretty tough rotation too. Adding those two SPs, Donaldson, and Riley while taking away Lynn's salary would only push them into the $140 million range according to Sportrac.



Pie in the sky stuff - of course - but if AA could make two deals like that he'd still come out of this winter controlling Pache, Waters, Anderson, Wright, Wilson, Wentz, and both Catcher prospects while SERIOUSLY increasing our chances to contend for the next 2-3 years. That'd be a *elluva feat.
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Another example of you failing to look at everything. MadBum's road numbers the second half were even worse than his road numbers the whole year.... his second half road era was 6.16... try again

His full season era was 3.90... how exactly is that much different than his 3.75 second half era?

There is certainly tons of doubt whether he's an upgrade over JT or Keuchel... MadBum's road numbers over the past 2 years have been horrendous in a large sample.

Also Happ is garbage and Wentz isn't in our system.
 
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zbhargrove said:
Another example of you failing to look at everything. His road numbers the second half were even worse than his road numbers the whole year.... his second half road era was 6.16... try again

His full season era was 3.90... how exactly is that much different than his 3.75 second half era?
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Not "looking at everything"?

Let's only focus on the road ERA since it's almost as important a stat as Wins these days. That 1.04 WHIP, 8.3 K/9, and 1.8 BB/9 definitely don't mean anything. Since you're making that point, would you care to list how those numbers stacked up against Keuchel and Julio's numbers over their last 15 starts?
 
clvclv said:
Not "looking at everything"?

Let's only focus on the road ERA since it's almost as important a stat as Wins these days. That 1.04 WHIP, 8.3 K/9, and 1.8 BB/9 definitely don't mean anything. Since you're making that point, would you care to list how those numbers stacked up against Keuchel and Julio's numbers over their last 15 starts?
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If we are going to sign a pitcher with a QO why not Wheeler?
 
clvclv said:
Not "looking at everything"?

Let's only focus on the road ERA since it's almost as important a stat as Wins these days. That 1.04 WHIP, 8.3 K/9, and 1.8 BB/9 definitely don't mean anything. Since you're making that point, would you care to list how those numbers stacked up against Keuchel and Julio's numbers over their last 15 starts?
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The focus on the road ERA is a very important stat. His home park is the best pitcher park in the MLB and the sample size is large...

Sure, I'll bite, Keuchel had a second half ERA of 3.80, 4.71 FIP, 3.92 xFIP
Teheran second half ERA 3.89, 4.77 FIP, 5.23 xFIP
MadBum second half ERA 3.75, 3.89 FIP, 4.64 xFIP

How exactly is MadBum a substantial upgrade? Then you add in that MadBum can't pitch out of SanFran... how can you even attempt to defend your awful take here?
 
Carp said:
I can't imagine why we would want MadBum over Hamels. Hamels is actually better, likely to be cheaper, and won't cost a pick.
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Yes, this is another point... Hamels also is a better and cheaper option... MadBum may be, I don't know our 10th or 11th best option for the rotation... I don't get it
 
ixiXSolidXixi said:
If we are going to sign a pitcher with a QO why not Wheeler?
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Wheeler's going to get at least 5 years and likely over $100 million.

I'm not arguing that Wheeler might not be the better Pitcher right now - simply that AA's probably not looking for a 5+ year commitment for that kind of money. Hamels is certainly a potential option, and I'd think Pineda could turn out to be a very good sneaky get for someone on a two-year deal.
 
clvclv said:
Wheeler's going to get at least 5 years and likely over $100 million.

I'm not arguing that Wheeler might not be the better Pitcher right now - simply that AA's probably not looking for a 5+ year commitment for that kind of money. Hamels is certainly a potential option, and I'd think Pineda could turn out to be a very good sneaky get for someone on a two-year deal.
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Yet MadBum is likely to get at least a 4 year deal... its really not much different.

Agree on Pineda... my two cheap options would be to sign both Pineda and Hamels... that way you can keep both of their innings down. Hamels getting old and Pineda a usual injury risk. Wheeler is not only a better pitcher... he's arguably head and shoulders better
 
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Carp said:
I can't imagine why we would want MadBum over Hamels. Hamels is actually better, likely to be cheaper, and won't cost a pick.
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People remember what Bumgarner use to be and I guess hold out hope that he turns back into his old self. I’m in the camp of Hamels also.
 
Carp said:
I can't imagine why we would want MadBum over Hamels. Hamels is actually better, likely to be cheaper, and won't cost a pick.
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Again, I'm not blindly campaigning for MadBum, simply pointing out that he was better than Keuchel or Julio during the second half.

We've identified plenty of pretty good options that aren't "Ace" level. If you want to waste time going back quite a while, I was one of the first people that even mentioned Hamels. Of course that shouldn't be considered since I talked about him a week or two ago.
 
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