Official Offseason Thread

bravesfanMatt said:
I seriously doubt the cubs want to take on our salary for marginal players. A Bryant trade needs to clear them of all his salary and to get an impact player in return. Not some poo poo platter of marginal players.

I think figuring out how to make the 40 man work for holt is a much more reasonable explanation.
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Don't think he was saying the Cubs would be getting Inciarte/Greene... I think he was saying we trade for Bryant and also trade off Inciarte/Greene just somewhere... doesn't have to be in the same deal. Those are two players that have enough value to be off loaded a number of places if needed.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I seriously doubt the cubs want to take on our salary for marginal players. A Bryant trade needs to clear them of all his salary and to get an impact player in return. Not some poo poo platter of marginal players.

I think figuring out how to make the 40 man work for holt is a much more reasonable explanation.
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Bryant makes 18.6m.

inciarte makes 7m. Greene let's say will make 6m. Cubs could save 5m and address two positions. I honestly don't really quite understand why Bryant is on the block to begin with so don't ask me what they are trying to accomplish.

You could also move Inciarte or Greene elsewhere. Should not have trouble giving them away if you had to.
 
Super said:
is payroll going to go up to over $170M? i think there's no way at this point they trade for him at this time.
Camargo can't be starting at 3B by himself.
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Also the only year Camargo was a starter, he was a 3.3 fWAR player. I don't think its likely he repeats that looking at some of the metrics but its not impossible. But I'd take 3+ WAR in a heart beat at 3rd base.
 
our 40 is full so we would have to dump Greene and ender before acquiring Bryant. And I agree. I don’t see why they would trade Bryant and still try to compete. That is like us trading FF to get two marginal players back plus a few prospects. It makes zero Sense.
 
Maybe they know for sure, because of the service time shenanigans, that Bryant wouldn't come back? Then his value couldn't be higher now than any other time.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
our 40 is full so we would have to dump Greene and ender before acquiring Bryant. And I agree. I don’t see why they would trade Bryant and still try to compete. That is like us trading FF to get two marginal players back plus a few prospects. It makes zero Sense.
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Because they are desperate to free up cash, they know he won't be there long term, their window is closing pretty quickly and they are risking getting nothing of value for him.
 
zbhargrove said:
Because they are desperate to free up cash, they know he won't be there long term, their window is closing pretty quickly and they are risking getting nothing of value for him.
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Then they should rebuild. You trade one of your top players and try to compete. When does that ever happen.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
our 40 is full so we would have to dump Greene and ender before acquiring Bryant. And I agree. I don’t see why they would trade Bryant and still try to compete. That is like us trading FF to get two marginal players back plus a few prospects. It makes zero Sense.
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The Cubs are a big market playoff contender. I don't really understand them trading Bryant at all.

I think if you had the Bryant deal lined up, you would probably have time to line up the corresponding moves.

It's true that the Braves 40 man doesn't have much dead weight. Pfeiffer and Dayton seem like the most disposable.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I seriously doubt the cubs want to take on our salary for marginal players. A Bryant trade needs to clear them of all his salary and to get an impact player in return. Not some poo poo platter of marginal players.

I think figuring out how to make the 40 man work for holt is a much more reasonable explanation.
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I never said the Cubs would have to take them both several teams need a closer. One in particular being the Pirates with Vazquez legal situation.
 
zbhargrove said:
I think you're more likely to see a Ozuna, Pache, Acuna outfield sooner than later.
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I'm hoping that Pache is ready once his clock is delayed. ST is going to be fun with a wide open 5th starter spot, a wide open 3B spot and Pache/Waters pushing for a promotion.
 
Southcack77 said:
Putting aside the prospect cost and the likelihood of such a deal, I'd be happy to trade Inciarte's production for Bryant's production.
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that's not really what you're doing tho. it's trading Inciarte's plus Greene's plus cash to possibly use for a mid-season addition. obviously if it were only Inciarte v. Bryant to consider, it's not a tough choice.

Southcack77 said:
Another way of saying, we already have a shaky OF platoon. We also have a far below average 3B situation.

Bryant upgrades 3B to at least well above average. The platoon probably doesn't suffer all that much without Inciarte.
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What's the shaky OF platoon? Ender is fine in CF FT. I'll take 2-3 WAR from him there for his price. Duvall and Markakis being bench players will probably generate the same amount of WAR as them being starters.
I also don't think the 3B would be below average if you go and sign Holt to platoon with Camargo. as i've said, i think you could get 3 WAR out of them in that scenario.

Ender in CF (let's say 2 WAR to be cautious), Camargo and Holt at 3B (3 WAR) = 5
Duvall and Markakis in the OF (1 WAR) plus Bryant (4.7 WAR) = 5.7 for more money and prospect cost.


Southcack77 said:
In that situation, I'd probably go sign Billy Hamilton to be a defensive sub while I waited for Pache.
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i would say Pache is too much of an unknown with the bat, but it's unlikely he's any worse than Hamilton there.
 
zbhargrove said:
Also the only year Camargo was a starter, he was a 3.3 fWAR player. I don't think its likely he repeats that looking at some of the metrics but its not impossible. But I'd take 3+ WAR in a heart beat at 3rd base.
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it's already been laid out that Camargo, in all likelihood, will never repeat that production. allow him to only face LHP and let him feast. allow Holt to only face RHP and let him feast. there's your 3+ WAR, IMO.
 
Super said:
this is the logic here. he's on the block because he's made it known he's unhappy.
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Well he is a borAss client so he is going to free agency regardless. But if you are the cubs and your window is closing either ride him for those two years or trade him plus others and do a three year reboot.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Then they should rebuild. You trade one of your top players and try to compete. When does that ever happen.
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It could signal the start or thoughts of a rebuild... has to start somewhere when it does. For us, it was Heyward. Ownership isn't going to come right out and say they are contemplating a rebuild publicly. But its not hard to see that the Cubs window is closing pretty quickly.
 
i think the Cubs would be otherwise interested in Inciarte if a guy like Pillar weren't still a FA. i think they still intend to try and compete.
 
zbhargrove said:
It could signal the start or thoughts of a rebuild... has to start somewhere when it does. For us, it was Heyward. Ownership isn't going to come right out and say they are contemplating a rebuild publicly. But its not hard to see that the Cubs window is closing pretty quickly.
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Yes I agree. But if that is the case then ender would not go back to them. We would have to trade prospects for Bryant and then flip Ender while his value is low. Doesn’t seem optimal in my opinion. I would love Bryant. But it just isn’t going to happen. Get a lefty platoon bat for 3rd. Trade someone off the 40 for swhatever you can get and go to battle.
 
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