The Trump Presidency

zitothebrave said:
When the President takes the time to announce/give the Presidential Medal of Freedom to a conspiracy theory toting shock jock, you can't be shocked about lack of decorum.
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Shocked? No. Still condemn the indecorous response? Absolutely. One party acting in a juvenile manner does not make it correct for the other party to respond in the same manner. It's the logical fallacy of two wrongs don't make a right. Expect all of our leaders to act more dignified regardless of what others are doing.
 
(D)'s full on face dignity begot Trump -Bush43/41, Reagan and Nixon.

Got Scott Walker in Wisconsin , Rick Scott in Fla, oh yeah, Brian Kemp in Georgia

Not to mention, McConnell, Lindsey Graham.

HRC and john Kerry

As a lifelong far lefter ---screw their dignity--- people want health care, education and a cease to these endless wars that profit the weapons industry
…….

Curious what the wrong was ?
Did Pelosi like a poster asked, steal from a children's cancer foundation ?
Or steal the monies from returning veterans ?
Or deny earthquake relief to Puerto Rico
No, she employed a bit of stagecraft

You find outrage at the silliest things
 
57Brave said:
(D)'s full on face dignity begot Trump -Bush43/41, Reagan and Nixon.

Got Scott Walker in Wisconsin , Rick Scott in Fla, oh yeah, Brian Kemp in Georgia

Not to mention, McConnell, Lindsey Graham.

HRC and john Kerry

As a lifelong far lefter ---screw their dignity--- people want health care, education and a cease to these endless wars that profit the weapons industry
…….

Curious what the wrong was ?
Did Pelosi like a poster asked, steal from a children's cancer foundation ?
Or steal the monies from returning veterans ?
Or deny earthquake relief to Puerto Rico
No, she employed a bit of stagecraft

You find outrage at the silliest things
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You miss my point. My point is that the "stagecraft" as you call it is undermining the ability to actually get anything done. Like I said, instead of debating policy issues after the State of the Union, the headlines were over the snubbed handshake and a clearly planned stunt of tearing up the speech.

Politicians can disagree with each other and leverage every drop of their power to try to push their side's agenda and yet still have working relationships with the other side. Right now we have a President and a Speaker of the House who wont even talk to each other. Instead of trying to fix the relationship it's just an endless string of meaningless antagonistic gestures.

The daily nonsense just breeds further bad blood and causes deeper division between political factions. It's also shows a profound lack of maturity from the people we've entrusted our republic to.
 
It is reported 250 to 400 bills on Mc Connels desk waiting for debate.

Included is earthquake releif for PR.
Trump has already declared it DOA.
What should they debate
Except why you keep enablong this regime ?
Pelosi tore up papers indeed
 
striker42 said:
You miss my point. My point is that the "stagecraft" as you call it is undermining the ability to actually get anything done. Like I said, instead of debating policy issues after the State of the Union, the headlines were over the snubbed handshake and a clearly planned stunt of tearing up the speech.

Politicians can disagree with each other and leverage every drop of their power to try to push their side's agenda and yet still have working relationships with the other side. Right now we have a President and a Speaker of the House who wont even talk to each other. Instead of trying to fix the relationship it's just an endless string of meaningless antagonistic gestures.

The daily nonsense just breeds further bad blood and causes deeper division between political factions. It's also shows a profound lack of maturity from the people we've entrusted our republic to.
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Odd you comment on Pelosi theatrics yet give Trumps behavior toward Romney a pass.
Nah not odd, in charactor
 
57Brave said:
Funny, instead of condemning Trump- Limbaugh love fest, you are upset by Pelosi.
Not ha-ha funny either
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This is where you reveal your bias. Yes I'm condemning Pelosi for her little stunt. That's all you can focus on. I responded to a post about the Limbaugh thing in which I referred to that kind of stunt as juvenile behavior.

I'm disgusted with how ridiculous Congress and the President are behaving. Trump, Pelosi, Graham, McConnell, Nadler, Schiff, etc. They're behaving like middle schoolers. There's not an adult to be found anywhere. And the more bad blood is created, the harder it will be for these people to do their jobs as their jobs require some degree of cooperation.
 
57Brave said:
Odd you comment on Pelosi theatrics yet give Trumps behavior toward Romney a pass.
Nah not odd, in charactor
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When have I given Trump's theatrics a pass? You seem to operate under the belief that condemnation of Pelosi's stunt automatically equals approval of the stunts of everyone on the right. That's not the case. Trump's theatrics are absolutely absurd. I'd just have more respect for Pelosi if she didn't stoop to theatrics of her own. They're utterly unproductive.

The wrestling a pig analogy someone made is appropriate. All engaging Trump on his level is doing is making Pelosi look unprofessional and giving Trump the reaction he wants.

You don't beat a troll by descending to his level, you beat him by not giving him the reaction he wants.
 
Im guessing in those 250-400 bills Pelosi has gotten out of the House something about Clean Water ?

Curious uour codemnation of Trump admin stripping Clean Water protections.
But hey, Pelosi engaged in theatrics
 
57Brave said:
Politics is theatre.
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Completely disagree. There is definitely a place for theatrics. Speech craft is mostly theater. But that's just a small portion of it.

Politics is deal making, at least in our system. There's not a ton any one person in government can do alone. You need to be able to make deals. You have to be able to pull the strings to get a bill out of committee, to get it brought to the floor, to get it worked on in the other house, to get it added to a larger bill, and so on. Right now it's doubly true with divided government.

So in order to make a deal, there must be a base level of trust and common ground. You can't have everyone so at each other's throats that they're more willing to let nothing get done than to give their opponent something they want. The kind of theatrics we're seeing now just erode common ground and the willingness to give the other party anything they want.

The theatrics also anger voters who tend not to take my point of view that all of it is nonsense. Instead they see their party's actions as justified while condemning the actions of the other party. This leads to angry voters who run to the fringes and elect nutters who will stoop to new lows. It's a downward spiral.
 
57Brave said:
Im guessing in those 250-400 bills Pelosi has gotten out of the House something about Clean Water ?

Curious uour codemnation of Trump admin stripping Clean Water protections.
But hey, Pelosi engaged in theatrics
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Pelosi does a bad act. You point to worse political acts by Trump and then try to say Pelosi's act isn't bad by comparison. This is the logical fallacy of relative privation.

It is entirely possible for Trump's erosion of clean water laws to be wrong while also the juvenile sniping Trump and Pelosi are engaging in to also be wrong.

You're not a dumb person. Surely you see it's possible to disagree with actions taken by members of the party you support?
 
striker42 said:
Shocked? No. Still condemn the indecorous response? Absolutely. One party acting in a juvenile manner does not make it correct for the other party to respond in the same manner. It's the logical fallacy of two wrongs don't make a right. Expect all of our leaders to act more dignified regardless of what others are doing.
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Why bother with decorum though? Trump and the Republicans have proven that they can have their cake and eat it too. Trump can be vile and spiteful and they rail on a democrat for forgetting to tie their right shoe first. Dems might as well get down and dirty too. **** doesn't matter because trying to live above the fray hasn't helped in years. Until the Tea-Partiers et al get out, there is no decorum.
 
zitothebrave said:
Why bother with decorum though? Trump and the Republicans have proven that they can have their cake and eat it too. Trump can be vile and spiteful and they rail on a democrat for forgetting to tie their right shoe first. Dems might as well get down and dirty too. **** doesn't matter because trying to live above the fray hasn't helped in years. Until the Tea-Partiers et al get out, there is no decorum.
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What good does getting "down and dirty" do? It might be cathartic but does it actually yield any real world gains? Not that I've ever seen.

Again, it's the two wrongs make a right fallacy. If it's wrong for the Republicans to engage in a certain manner, it's wrong for the Dems.
 
striker42 said:
Pelosi does a bad act. You point to worse political acts by Trump and then try to say Pelosi's act isn't bad by comparison. This is the logical fallacy of relative privation.

It is entirely possible for Trump's erosion of clean water laws to be wrong while also the juvenile sniping Trump and Pelosi are engaging in to also be wrong.

You're not a dumb person. Surely you see it's possible to disagree with actions taken by members of the party you support?
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there lies the problem, you equate the stripping of clean water regulations with Pelosi tearing up a photocopied Trump speech.

Wondering where you weighed in on the Flint Water (any Rust Belt city) crisis --- your thoughts on Jard Kushner running around the world making deals that are financially fruitful to his coffers yet long term harmful to our interests?

Or how out of one side of his mouth Trumps cuddles up to tyrants yet has (R) justifying his actions involving Biden/Ulraine invoking "corruption."

But, Pelosi tore up a sheet of paper on TV.

I have a lot of disagreements with (D). But I will air those grievances in a few weeks during the primary.
Truth be told most of those disagreements revolve around (D) taking too much schitt from (R) and not going far enough to the left. .

And symbolically, as leader of her party her primary function on SOTU night, what would have had her do ?
Whatever it was I am certain it would have had you finding fault. Unless of course that just letting it go unchallenged.
"yet, she persisted"

So, tell me about Trumps eviseration of Clean Water standards ?
 
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Speaking of breaking decorum, how abour Trump ripping Pelosi and Romney and their faith this morning at the NATIONAL PRAYER BREAKFAST and getting a STANDING OVATION for doing so?

I guess it's commonplace for the religious right to question the faith of others who don't agree, while supporting a man who has no faith whatsoever.
 
Obama was the least confrontational president we've ever had, never really broke decorum rules, and look at how he was treated by the right. Then look at how the people punished the right for being uncivil and disrespectful to the Presidency, they rewarded that behavior by giving them the Presidency!
 
57Brave said:
It is reported 250 to 400 bills on Mc Connels desk waiting for debate.

Included is earthquake releif for PR.
Trump has already declared it DOA.
What should they debate
Except why you keep enablong this regime ?
Pelosi tore up papers indeed
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You know it's possible to be outraged by both right? You can't attack Republicans and Trump supporters for condoning Trump's childish behavior while also condoning Pelosi's actions from Tuesday night.
 
who cares about decorum ?

I'm more concerned with getting the pot holes filled and other aspects, big and small, of governance.

Then there is the guy who throws rolls of paper towels at people just devastated by a hurricane. That was not an issue of decorum.
That is a " let them eat cake " moment.
We know how that turned out
 
Carp said:
You know it's possible to be outraged by both right? You can't attack Republicans and Trump supporters for condoning Trump's childish behavior while also condoning Pelosi's actions from Tuesday night.
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yeah, withholding disaster aid is = to tearing up a speech

I don't care about Pelosi's "actions"

What I do care about is the TMZ level false equivalency you see of what she did to what Trump is doing.
That is what the media called "economic anxiety" this past election.
That a lot of people are snapping right into line over.

That poster that asked "what propaganda"
 
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