DOB: Braves offseason about to get a lot busier. - Gamel released.

Gary82 said:
Bowman is good at what he does, and is the best one reporting on the Braves.
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The problem with this statement is that anyone assumes someone actually digs beyond the GM-speak and would actually publish anything that hadn't been spoon-fed to them.

While I understand MF II's point, I respectfully disagree somewhat - what made the B.J. pursuit successful - and the trade for Justin an even better example - was the fact that Bowman and DOB took everything they were being told as gospel...neither of them ever bothered to dig beyond their regular "sources" to find out whether there was anything more to what the national guys were reporting.

If you're the local paper's guru or the team's official website's scribe and you ALWAYS get scooped by the national media, you're exactly the puppet Wren & Company wants in place - when they do consider outside the box moves they'd like to quietly work on, there's little chance anyone sees them coming until the deal is closed or on the verge of being closed.

Bourn was a Borass client and was angling for a max deal and B. J. was the top other available CF option who was available when Borass set his initial number - anyone with ANY MLB-involved job that couldn't connect those dots that gets a paycheck should've been fired. The fact that others scooped Bowman and DOB on the signing simply magnifies this point.

The organization had been PUBLICLY angling for Justin for years - you mean to tell me that DOB and Bowman are good at their jobs because they continually cut-and-pasted the same babble in articles for several weeks after they'd been told that we weren't pursuing him anymore when they kept reading that Wren hadn't completely closed that door on MLBTR and Twitter every morning???

Puh-leeze!!!

Wren & Company play these two like a fiddle.
 
clvclv said:
The problem with this statement is that anyone assumes someone actually digs beyond the GM-speak and would actually publish anything that hadn't been spoon-fed to them.

While I understand MF II's point, I respectfully disagree somewhat - what made the B.J. pursuit successful - and the trade for Justin an even better example - was the fact that Bowman and DOB took everything they were being told as gospel...neither of them ever bothered to dig beyond their regular "sources" to find out whether there was anything more to what the national guys were reporting.

If you're the local paper's guru or the team's official website's scribe and you ALWAYS get scooped by the national media, you're exactly the puppet Wren & Company wants in place - when they do consider outside the box moves they'd like to quietly work on, there's little chance anyone sees them coming until the deal is closed or on the verge of being closed.

Bourn was a Borass client and was angling for a max deal and B. J. was the top other available CF option who was available when Borass set his initial number - anyone with ANY MLB-involved job that couldn't connect those dots that gets a paycheck should've been fired. The fact that others scooped Bowman and DOB on the signing simply magnifies this point.

The organization had been PUBLICLY angling for Justin for years - you mean to tell me that DOB and Bowman are good at their jobs because they continually cut-and-pasted the same babble in articles for several weeks after they'd been told that we weren't pursuing him anymore when they kept reading that Wren hadn't completely closed that door on MLBTR and Twitter every morning???

Puh-leeze!!!

Wren & Company play these two like a fiddle.
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Again, this isn't exactly a bad thing - it's always nice to know that the only people that you're worried about opening their mouths too early are the Rosenthal/Verducci/Stark crowd - they're generally too busy running down rumors on the obvious needs and holes since they're also trying to keep up with every other team's whispers.
 
clvclv said:
The problem with this statement is that anyone assumes someone actually digs beyond the GM-speak and would actually publish anything that hadn't been spoon-fed to them.

While I understand MF II's point, I respectfully disagree somewhat - what made the B.J. pursuit successful - and the trade for Justin an even better example - was the fact that Bowman and DOB took everything they were being told as gospel...neither of them ever bothered to dig beyond their regular "sources" to find out whether there was anything more to what the national guys were reporting.

If you're the local paper's guru or the team's official website's scribe and you ALWAYS get scooped by the national media, you're exactly the puppet Wren & Company wants in place - when they do consider outside the box moves they'd like to quietly work on, there's little chance anyone sees them coming until the deal is closed or on the verge of being closed.

Bourn was a Borass client and was angling for a max deal and B. J. was the top other available CF option who was available when Borass set his initial number - anyone with ANY MLB-involved job that couldn't connect those dots that gets a paycheck should've been fired. The fact that others scooped Bowman and DOB on the signing simply magnifies this point.

The organization had been PUBLICLY angling for Justin for years - you mean to tell me that DOB and Bowman are good at their jobs because they continually cut-and-pasted the same babble in articles for several weeks after they'd been told that we weren't pursuing him anymore when they kept reading that Wren hadn't completely closed that door on MLBTR and Twitter every morning???

Puh-leeze!!!

Wren & Company play these two like a fiddle.
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That's the nature of the beast in the modern media (especially in sports) at this point in time. If Bowman and O'Brien don't play ball, they have to stand outside the circle. Listen to local announcers. They treat the teams they are covering with kid gloves these days. I doubt Skip Carey could have announced for the Braves now with the same style he used when they were on TBS.

There are some markets (think in the Northeast) that have a couple of guys in the sports media who are the "designated dumpers," but these guys don't look for access. They only want to rip the coaches and players. But if your job is tied to coverage of the local nine, eleven, or five, you are almost required to play softball.
 
Print media sportswriters will be a dinosaur in the near future. Do a poll if you think it is worthwhile. How many of the members of this forum even buy newspapers these days? Rosenthal used to have an inside track with the Braves but internet, twitter, and TV were much more lucrative so guess where he makes his bucks these days?

If it wasnt for mid week grocery ads I wouldnt be surprised to see the AJC close the doors.

The black sports reporter for AJC (cant remember his name) only wrote one pertinent article regarding the Braves that I can recall, decrying the absence of black players. Got lots of pub with that one. Now with a black OF and one of them being a local kid, you dont even read a peep from him.

Just some random thoughts.

Even Furman Bisher was not noted for rocking the Braves boat back in the days of futility.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
Print media sportswriters will be a dinosaur in the near future. Do a poll if you think it is worthwhile. How many of the members of this forum even buy newspapers these days? Rosenthal used to have an inside track with the Braves but internet, twitter, and TV were much more lucrative so guess where he makes his bucks these days?

If it wasnt for mid week grocery ads I wouldnt be surprised to see the AJC close the doors.

The black sports reporter for AJC (cant remember his name) only wrote one pertinent article regarding the Braves that I can recall, decrying the absence of black players. Got lots of pub with that one. Now with a black OF and one of them being a local kid, you dont even read a peep from him.

Just some random thoughts.

Even Furman Bisher was not noted for rocking the Braves boat back in the days of futility.
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I think columnists have more leeway and Terence Moore and Mark Bradley certainly used that leeway for pointed comments, but O'Brien and Bowman are the beat writers and that means it's imperative to have access on a daily basis. They get too critical given the prickly nature of the modern athlete and manager/coach and they will find themselves talking to the walls.
 
Tapate50 said:
http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/baseball/braves-seek-to-fix-uggla-and-bj-upton-after-awful-/ncHLR/

A pretty candid article about how the two will be approached in regards to their offseason work... When is the last time you saw "awful season" in a headline?
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To call Uggla a second baseman and hail him for doing something no other second baseman has done really borders on the ludicrous. Uggla stands at 2B only because he can't be hidden elsewhere. Uggla plays "bat," plain and simple.
 
Bj and Uggla can't possibly get worse can they? If I am Frank Wren, I need to insure I have a mini back up plan that doesn't include Elliot Johnson. A cya move... Infante is that move IMO...
 
Tapate50 said:
Bj and Uggla can't possibly get worse can they? If I am Frank Wren, I need to insure I have a mini back up plan that doesn't include Elliot Johnson. A cya move... Infante is that move IMO...
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Agree. Need a back-up plan and I think Infante would be a good one because he can back up at 3B (where I think there will be some fall-off from Chris Johnson) and take up the slack in the OF if B.J. Upton doesn't recover. He kills two birds with one stone because he could replace either Uggla or B.J. Upton in the line-up. He's obviously better at 2B than in the OF, but his bat carries.
 
Chavez and Infante are both worth considering.

I would prefer Chavez on a one year deal. Less risk with the shorter deal. His being a left-handed hitter is another plus relative to Infante.

Infante would cost more and have more years to his deal. I'm guessing he'll get 8-10M for 3 years. But that's not bad. The three years would cover his ages 32-34 seasons. I think he is the type of player who would age well. As has been pointed out he can also play third and outfield. So he is a good option as well. I prefer Chavez, but both would be good signings imo.
 
Rosenthal reporting Price WOULD NOT consider signing a long-term extension if traded to Seattle, but WOULD consider it based on where he's dealt.

Absolutely have to believe Wren's neck deep in talking to Friedman. Price has been quoted as saying he grew up a Braves fan, and he already has old pal B. J. here, so you've got to figure we're one of the places he'd consider an extension.

With Texas and the Dodgers supposedly out and Seattle likely to back away given that news, Tampa's leverage is dwindling by the day. There's nothing that says they CAN'T wait until later to deal him, but the return drops with every start he makes if they decide to play chicken.

Wood/Sims/Bethancourt/Peraza has to look better and better given this news.
 
I don't think Tampa is desperate to move Price. They are a contending team and he fits nicely at the top of their rotation. Holding on to him for another year is an excellent fallback option for them.

With respect to an extension if he is traded to a team he likes, that's only a plus to the extent it is below market. Chris Sale is a tremendous asset because of the ridiculously team-friendly deal he is signed to, especially in light of this off-season's market prices for starting pitching. I don't know what kind of discount relative to market Price would be willing to sign for, but I would be careful about assuming that an extension would increase his value. Sometimes it is the extension that is problematic rather than the trade itself (see Uggla, Daniel).
 
Braves signed RHP Yunesky Maya to a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training.
Maya was released by the Nationals in November after posted a 5.80 ERA and 1.58 WHIP in 59 total major league innings. The 32-year-old from Cuba signed a four-year, $8 million contract in the middle of the 2010 season.
 
nsacpi said:
I don't think Tampa is desperate to move Price. They are a contending team and he fits nicely at the top of their rotation. Holding on to him for another year is an excellent fallback option for them.

With respect to an extension if he is traded to a team he likes, that's only a plus to the extent it is below market. Chris Sale is a tremendous asset because of the ridiculously team-friendly deal he is signed to, especially in light of this off-season's market prices for starting pitching. I don't know what kind of discount relative to market Price would be willing to sign for, but I would be careful about assuming that an extension would increase his value. Sometimes it is the extension that is problematic rather than the trade itself (see Uggla, Daniel).
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Agreed, but Price would be worth the money IMO.

He's about as close to a definite or a workhorse ace as you can find. The only other starting pitcher I'd probably give the money to in the last 10 years would be a prime Doc Halladay. Price IMO has been just as dominant.
 
nsacpi said:
I don't think Tampa is desperate to move Price. They are a contending team and he fits nicely at the top of their rotation. Holding on to him for another year is an excellent fallback option for them.

With respect to an extension if he is traded to a team he likes, that's only a plus to the extent it is below market. Chris Sale is a tremendous asset because of the ridiculously team-friendly deal he is signed to, especially in light of this off-season's market prices for starting pitching. I don't know what kind of discount relative to market Price would be willing to sign for, but I would be careful about assuming that an extension would increase his value. Sometimes it is the extension that is problematic rather than the trade itself (see Uggla, Daniel).
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Like I said, they don't HAVE to move him, and I'm not sure I would personally.

That said, their organization is completely based on "maximizing value" and more to the point "maximizing surplus value". There's absolutely no chance that they can retain him two years from now. Working backward from that point, his value will drop with every start he makes in a Rays' uniform from this point forward.

http://www.draysbay.com/2013/12/6/5181404/the-rays-tank-the-subjectivity-of-surplus-value

The point I'm making is that when weighting the singular compensation pick they'd receive following the 2015 season vs. what offers they're getting now it's likely "now or never" if they want to gain surplus value. They've already been told "no" on Profar and Taijuan Walker. Seattle was supposedly still the frontrunner if they'd include Zunino, but they aren't likely to go that far if they already know that Price won't consider staying. Assuming they're not going to stray from their organizational philosophy, they have little choice other than to start expanding their desired return to a point where the surplus value they receive is somewhat more evenly spread over the entire package they get rather than a more top-heavy one with that "can't miss star" as a headliner.
 
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