The Coronavirus, not the beer

Metaphysicist said:
It's not that people are saying "this man needs a bed stat" and then rejecting them; it's that the standard used for admittance tightens up during triage conditions and that means the edge cases are getting denied a bed much more often. Some of them then die. I mean, there has been a decent amount of reporting on this recently. For example, today's NYT:

New York Put Recovering Virus Patients in Hotels. Soon, 4 Were Dead.

Also recently:

He Went to 3 Hospitals. When He Finally Got a Bed, It Was Too Late.
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For starters both stories are tragic.

The first involved a common practice to isolate but the follow up was the issue and not purposefully restricting admission because of overbearing demand. At least that's my assessment.

The second article the family left the second hospital when he may have been helped. That's indicative of an overused system I agree but he wasnt rejected because of any policy.
 
thethe said:
For starters both stories are tragic.

The first involved a common practice to isolate but the follow up was the issue and not purposefully restricting admission because of overbearing demand. At least that's my assessment.

The second article the family left the second hospital when he may have been helped. That's indicative of an overused system I agree but he wasnt rejected because of any policy.
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The point is that in an unstrained system these are the types of people who are going to get better care.
 
The lack of follow up, which you cited, is part of the lower standard of care. The strategy is fine, the poor execution (from strain) is not.
 
Metaphysicist said:
The lack of follow up, which you cited, is part of the lower standard of care. The strategy is fine, the poor execution (from strain) is not.
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But the responsibility on the follow up isnt really on the medical care workers. If they were notified of a degradation in the patients condition and did nothing then I'd agree.

There were pockets of areas around the country that had hospital strain but it wasnt debilitating as it was forecasted.

We should have had the individual choose what to do. Most would have quarantined but any economic activity saved is a big deal.
 
trumpidiotbestpractices.jpg


feel the wheels turning
 
I'm not claiming a failure on the part any particular individual medical worker. These are systemic problems that crop up when the overall system is stressed. When you need the beds, people are discharged who present as recovered. With excess capacity, with smaller numbers of sick folks, these people might have been held for observation longer. The length of stay numbers in NYC are lower than other places, I believe.

NYC hospitals (and related infrastructure) had a huge strain even with the shutdown orders. This is undeniable. It is also undeniable that the strain would have been worse without the shutdown, with the virus continuing unchecked into the remaining 70-80% of the population that haven't gotten it. If you are arguing with any of those points are just not living in reality.
 
thethe said:
But the responsibility on the follow up isnt really on the medical care workers. If they were notified of a degradation in the patients condition and did nothing then I'd agree.

There were pockets of areas around the country that had hospital strain but it wasnt debilitating as it was forecasted.

We should have had the individual choose what to do. Most would have quarantined but any economic activity saved is a big deal.
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HEY IDIOT...

Was Trump talking about treatments we low IQ folks can't possibly comprehend, or was he just being sarcastic?
 
The trumpkin states are just about to open up right as the virus spread is starting to hit them hard. They are all too stupid to realize the virus hit densely populated areas on the coasts first (because that's where people actually go) and is working its way through the interior now (because nobody goes there if they can avoid it).

Good luck you bumbling idiots. You're going to need it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/he...s-that-may-reopen-soon/ar-BB139JKj?li=BBnb7Kz
 
Metaphysicist said:
I'm not claiming a failure on the part any particular individual medical worker. These are systemic problems that crop up when the overall system is stressed. When you need the beds, people are discharged who present as recovered. With excess capacity, with smaller numbers of sick folks, these people might have been held for observation longer. The length of stay numbers in NYC are lower than other places, I believe.

NYC hospitals (and related infrastructure) had a huge strain even with the shutdown orders. This is undeniable. It is also undeniable that the strain would have been worse without the shutdown, with the virus continuing unchecked into the remaining 70-80% of the population that haven't gotten it. If you are arguing with any of those points are just not living in reality.
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The lockdown went into effect around March 21st. People were social distancing before so lets say mid march. There is a 1-2 week lag on infection to symptoms were it would end up being confirmed.

By this time the rate of growth was going down tremendously and even moreso on hospitalizations. So when you say 'worse' what do you really mean? Do I think we may have had another 2-3k hospitlizations over this same period? Probably. But we built up capacity for that that ended up not being used.

This off course offset with a higher cumulative infection rate and far less economic damage.

So again, it goes back to the question. Which did more harm?
 
thethe said:
The lockdown went into effect around March 21st. People were social distancing before so lets say mid march. There is a 1-2 week lag on infection to symptoms were it would end up being confirmed.

By this time the rate of growth was going down tremendously and even moreso on hospitalizations. So when you say 'worse' what do you really mean? Do I think we may have had another 2-3k hospitlizations over this same period? Probably. But we built up capacity for that that ended up not being used.

This off course offset with a higher cumulative infection rate and far less economic damage.

So again, it goes back to the question. Which did more harm?
Click to expand...

HEY IDIOT...

Was Trump talking about treatments we low IQ folks can't possibly comprehend, or was he just being sarcastic?
 
Mr. President, FYI, now is not the time to be sarcastic (alrighty then). Watch the president of Australia, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, and the Queen. Please. Pretty please.
 
thethe said:
The lockdown went into effect around March 21st. People were social distancing before so lets say mid march. There is a 1-2 week lag on infection to symptoms were it would end up being confirmed.

By this time the rate of growth was going down tremendously and even moreso on hospitalizations. So when you say 'worse' what do you really mean? Do I think we may have had another 2-3k hospitlizations over this same period? Probably. But we built up capacity for that that ended up not being used.

This off course offset with a higher cumulative infection rate and far less economic damage.

So again, it goes back to the question. Which did more harm?
Click to expand...

Like, I said, you are welcome to join us in reality anytime. It's been a full month of you just peddling random stuff you read on loony-tune twitter that turns out to be wrong. At some point, wouldn't it be easier to just chill out and see what happens?
 
Metaphysicist said:
Like, I said, you are welcome to join us in reality anytime. It's been a full month of you just peddling random stuff you read on loony-tune twitter that turns out to be wrong. At some point, wouldn't it be easier to just chill out and see what happens?
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I'd rather argue like a child thank you very much
 
I find it funny that thethe and right-wing twitter spent almost a full day tryijg to spin POTUS' injection comments saying we took it out of context and then he comes out and says he was being sarcastic.

That's just basically him admitting he said something stupid and now he's trying to play it off as a joke, while thethe and his kind were certain everyone else got it wrong.

Trump probably got scolded behind the scenes for suggesting something so stupid and now he wants to use the "i was just kidding" excuse.

We all know Trump really thought you could just inject some disingenuous and it'll go away. That's the sad part.
 
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