nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I believe that too is spelled out in a state's legal code.
The Coronavirus, not the beer
- Thread starter Runnin
- Start date
I believe that too is spelled out in a state's legal code.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
It could be that the legal code of states do not allow governors to claim anything (such as climate change) to be emergencies. Just a thought. I'm not a lawyer.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I guess the Italians realized the gravity of their situation. So while the mayors had to crack down a bit on people violating the lockdown it doesn't seem to have provoked much dissent. I think for countries like Italy that were staring into the abyss it has not been controversial. For countries that were not as hard hit, people have probably wondered what's the big deal. It has taken some explaining to get people to understand about exponential growth and how they could be the next Italy if they did not act now. But even with good public education there will some who just don't buy into the idea that millions could have died in this country if nothing was done. If that aint an emergency worthy of the invocation of emergency powers I don't know what is.
I'm just trying to understand the difference in the two situations. The orthodoxy kn climate change is we are headed on a path that will kill potentially hundreds of millions of pdollr.people.
How can the CCP virus be an emergency and not climate change?
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
It's a good question. Maybe some of the lawyers around here can chime in.
My guess is emergency powers have do do in part with how quickly action is needed. In an emergency there isn't time for the legislature to weigh in. So certain powers are given to the executive to deal with those situations. In contrast, the legislature should weigh in on other important matters like climate change that don't require immediate action.
Please believe I'm being genuine here.
I'm concerned with how easily we have given up our freedoms during a situation where there is still a lot of uncertainty.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
hmmm...no one is required to be consistent on all such matters, but i wonder if you and sturg were expressing similar reservations in real time when very poorly chosen one claimed emergency powers to reallocate funds toward building the wall
Trump won on a message for the wall. Yes Mexico was supposed to pay for it. We can argue whether or not that's truly happening from a macroeconomic standpoint. You are well equipped to do that.
Either way, funding was being denied despite winning on that message. It doesn't actually impact individual citizens rights and it will prove to be an effective use of resources.
I don't see the parallel here sir.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
seems like tyranny to me for the executive to unilaterally reallocate taxpayer dollars...if that is not tyranny what is...but i am not an expert on tyranny...i will wait for an expert to chime in
Its fun to see when you completely try to escape a discussion because you realize your original point was meaningless.
Back to the actual discussion. I'd like to know why states can't unilaterally decide to ban car travel of less than 3 since there are projections for mass death due to climate change.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Let's hope. I look at the 7 day numbers and they are starting to trend down.
Sweden cases for the 7 days ending May 3: 3,758
Sweden cases for prior 7 days: 4,377
So virus reproductive rate might be below 1 for them now. That would be big.
There is no question because once the uninfdctdd population dwindles the reproductive rate falls along with it.
Herd immunity was the only sensible approach while sheltering at risk.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
i'm not the one who introduced the distinction between "whims of the executive" and laws passed by representatives of the people...see previous page of this thread
"But at least they are (usually) passed via representatives of the people.
Not the whims of an executive"---sturg
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Cuz climate change is a slowly developing phenomenon that allows the legislature plenty of time to weigh in or not according to its wisdom
Wait a second. Do we have time to reverse the damage already done to the environment? That is not the messaging that is being relayed.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I think that's a different argument. Which is the legislative branch has had plenty of time to act and failed to. The legislative branch is not perfect. Democracy is not perfect. Humans are not perfect. Imperfection on the part of the legislative branch should not (imo) be an argument for overriding our constitutional arrangements.
So why would we give imperfect people such power?
If citizens rights can be restricted from this virus then I don't see an argument against doing the same for climate change.
This would be my primary concern. I think the 15-30 days was completely reasonable. We had no clue what we were dealing with but now with almost ALL the data showing its MUCH less deadly than previously thought the overreach to extend lockdowns is encroaching on tyranny from my perspective.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
I program most of my tools to manipulate weather data and calculate various parameters with Python... its probably the most used language within the National Weather Service. I love it, but when you have a ****load of grid points, it can be much slower than traditional languages. That's why most weather models are programmed in FORTRAN because while FORTRAN is a pain in the arse, it is ridiculously fast with massive grids/data arrays.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Yet when you compare Sweden with Finland and Norway (the only two countries that should be compared with Sweden), Sweden's cases are by far the most and increasing exponentially. It was a dumb decision.