Monuments

striker42 said:
Your post displays a huge problem on the left. The reflex to automatically condemn any break from liberal orthodoxy as racist, sexist, or some other -ist. You have no clue what my stance is and you're already ready to swing the racism axe.

My point is that a flag is nothing more than colored threads arranged in a pattern. I think we too often focus on the meaningless, symbolic fights like arguing a flag should go rather than trying to combat the meaning it is being assigned.

These fights are engaged in because they're easy, not because they're important.

Imagine you see someone looking for their keys on the ground under a street light. You ask them where they dropped them and they say they dropped them on the other side of the street. You ask him why he's looking under the light and he says "the light's better".

That's what these fights over things like flags are. They don't accomplish anything in the fight against racism (I'd argue they just inflame the situation) but it's far easier to get wins than in the fight against racism.

Change people's minds and these symbols will fade on their own.

I also try to not be so quick to prejudge someone as racist. Ive known people who fly the rebel flag because they had ancestors who fought in the war, I've known people who fly it because they don't like the government, and I've known people who fly it as part of their racism. I generally dismiss the flag as a poor indicator of anything.
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Except for the fact that flags and objects have carried meanings forever.

The idea that fighting racism doesn't involve just killing this flag is silly.

I forget who it was but I remember years ago getting into an argument with someone on this born. They were raised in the south and assumed since they were taught so much about the civil war in school they'd know more than a northern boy like me. When they were going on about how clearly the Civil War was fought over economics and states rights and that Slavery wasn't an issue on the minds, when I pointed out that the majority if not entirety (there were a few that I didn't remember and still don't) that specifically cite slavery as one of the main reasons for success and all the other things they cited were framed around it, the person was a bit indignant and insisted I was wrong until I pasted them. Because they were taught in school this wasn't the case.

And that's the issue with the Confederate Flag. So many people think that it's a flag for "southern pride" for "state pride" but this was a banner that was raised while Lee's army marched into the north and captured runaway slaves and free black people alike and marched them back into the south to enslave them. It's literally a flag that reminds people of one of the most abhorrent things in American history, that we took life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness from. All in the name of cheap dollars. It's not a black mark on the south or north, it's a black mark on the whole country. And by being complicit in allowing the confederate flag, we're not doing our part to make a small amount of amends for the tragedy of 2 and a half centuries of Slavery on our soil.
 
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Crazy that Marcon is being a strong leader right now.

Get the eff out of here with taking our historical structures down you fascist communist pigs.
 
I have

It’s why we have to vote out you and your boy in November

But I’d love to hear how these statues coming down with install fascism in America. Lol
 
Just so I'm clear on this, we're opposing tearing down Confederate monuments that were put up half a century after the civil war and a century after, that was used as a "response" to the civil rights movement and such to annoy black folks.

We are simply to just leave the monuments there because they've been there for a long time, despite the fact they should have never been erected in the first place? Amazing.



I've said it again and again. Don't tear them down. Move them to a museum, and all the proceeds go to an actual cause. Hell even use it towards paying reparations.
 
The Chosen One said:
Just so I'm clear on this, we're opposing tearing down Confederate monuments that were put up half a century after the civil war and a century after, that was used as a "response" to the civil rights movement and such to annoy black folks.

We are simply to just leave the monuments there because they've been there for a long time, despite the fact they should have never been erected in the first place? Amazing.



I've said it again and again. Don't tear them down. Move them to a museum, and all the proceeds go to an actual cause. Hell even use it towards paying reparations.
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Jefferson, columbus etc do not fit this profile
 
sturg33 said:
I dont think there is a single action you have yet opposed. I wonder when it is you might get a little converned?
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i'm guessing the last word was meant to be concerned

i don't think i have agreed or opposed anything on i'm guessing this front. i'm just not gonna get bent out of shape over a statue being torn down like it's some crime against humanity

i'll get concerned about this about the same time you actually show concern for the presidency and his abuse against citizens and the constitution (not how concerned you are about twitter fact checking stuff though. you know, real issues)
 
sturg33 said:
Jefferson, columbus etc do not fit this profile
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it's ok to reflect on things and change your mind and not build monuments or keep them of ****ty people

confederate or not

like, there is no actual barometer that Columbus was a good person and thus maybe shouldn't be held to such a standard to honor him for any of his "Achievements"

which really was a failure for what he set off to do
 
I mean Jefferson was instrumental in creating the most prosperous and free country of all time... if you want to discuss priviledge, being born in this country is like winning the lottery.

Yet these leftists hate him for what he stood for. They dont touch Lenin or Marx statues or FDR. They go after the guy who was the one that wrote all men are created equal.

Yes I'm aware he was a massive hypocrite. But that doesnt change the contribution he did to make billions of lives better because of them.

The statue is irrelevant but what he meant to this country's founding and liberty is a symbol these people simply hate.

You're one of them

A few years ago Julio and I debated whether founding father monuments would eventually be torn down. He said they never would. I guaranteed they would. The woke mob will never be satisfied.
 
goldfly said:
it's ok to reflect on things and change your mind and not build monuments or keep them of ****ty people

confederate or not

like, there is no actual barometer that Columbus was a good person and thus maybe shouldn't be held to such a standard to honor him for any of his "Achievements"

which really was a failure for what he set off to do
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Yes and if we as a people decide that, then great!

Instead you have a bunch of anarchists deciding what they dont like and taking them down. And the government is just letting them.

I asked a few times and never got an answer, do citizens have cart blanche to start destroying property we no longer like now with no consequences? Because that is what is happening
 
it's weird for you to say "i'm one of them" in a long post about Jefferson

literately my favorite of the founders, go to his memorial in washington whenever i am back up there, paid my respects at his grave etc etc etc

but please, go on
 
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