lol. Even better, why not just kill him within the first 5 minutes of Episode 7. Just like President Palmer died in the first 5 minutes of 24: Season 5.
That will REALLY set the tone.
Jecki Lon Memorial Star Wars Thread
- Thread starter zitothebrave
- Start date
lol. Even better, why not just kill him within the first 5 minutes of Episode 7. Just like President Palmer died in the first 5 minutes of 24: Season 5.
That will REALLY set the tone.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
How much of Luke was in Episodes 1-3?
He was in Episode 3 longer than he was in Episode 7.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
That hardly has anything to do with my point and you know.that.
you made a dumb point. I don’t see the point in asking how long was Luke in 1-3 when that trilogy was not involved with him or about him.
you asked a dumb question and are surprised when you get a dumb answer.
Luke should have not been wasted in Episode 7 by having him be on Atchtoo and making everyone wonder what was he doing there.
If done properly, Luke could have done some amazing **** in 7, turned into the fallen idol in Ep 8 and then make the selfless ultimate sacrifice in Episode 9. And all while transitioning the reigns to Ben and Rey in the saga.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Ah, so if the first trilogy he was not involved with or about him. Why would he need to be the center of the new Trilogy? Why couldn't he be killed off in a grand sacrifice? Perhaps bested by a superior foe to instill terror? Etc.
You're arguing a point I'm not making. I'm saying he shouldn't have barely been in Episode VII, I would have not had Han in VII and brought him in for VIII and had Luke there for VII and killed him off and had him come back as a force ghost ala Obi Wan/Yoda
The points you’re making are just completely stupid. Worse than thethe logic.
of course he wasn’t gonna be the center of the prequels he wasn’t born yet. Why would be featured in the new one? Because it’s a continuation of the previous one. Anakin/Vader were in the prequels and featured in the OT. It’s only natural that the older characters in the OT would be featured and pass the baton in the ST.
seriously, it’s painful to watch you constantly try to defend that ****show of the sequel trilogy, let alone defend the handling of Luke in this one.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Who said Luke needed ot be the star of the Sequel Trilogy when he wasn't star of the Prequels? Why couldn't someone else be the Star, just like the Prequels. It's not the Luke Skywalker Saga.
Why couldn't he die in the Sequels pretty early on? What rule is there against that? Other than Butt Hurting your own head canon?
striker42
Well-known member
Obi Wan defeated Maul twice with a lightsaber. The second time killing him (in Rebels).
Obi Wan defeated Grievous in a duel (largely with a lightsaber).
Obi Wan defeated Anakin with a lightsaber.
Mace Windu defeated Palpatine with a lightsaber (the only person ever to do so) and it took Anakin's somewhat not believable switch to the Dark Side to take down Windu. Palpatine could have easily been killed.
I disagree with characterizing Yoda's duel with Dooku as a draw. Dooku was outclassed and he knew it so he forced Yoda to save Obi Wan and Anakin and ran. A duel doesn't have to end in the death of your opponent to be a victory.
I think part of the reason we haven't seen much in the way of lightside force users defeating darkside force users is two fold. First, most of what we've seen of the Jedi has been their decline at the hands of the Sith so it would mostly be defeats. Second, lightside users tend to not kill their enemies. Lucas established this so that kids wouldn't think the lightside users were bad guys. So they spare their enemies after defeating them, usually with bad results.
In any event, the lightsaber is central to Star Wars. Many (perhaps most) of the most memorable scenes feature lightsabers. The duel of the fates was the best part of Episode I. Yoda fighting was the most memorable thing in Episode II. The duel between Obi Wan and Anakin is the best part of Episode III. I could keep going. Denying us that last great Luke Skywalker combat was so unsatisfying.
striker42
Well-known member
I agree that Luke didn't need to be the star of the sequels. I-III were Anakin Skywalker's story. III-IV were Luke Skywalker's Story. So IV-VI should have been the story of the next generation of Skywalker. It's the Skywalker Saga, not the Luke Skywalker Saga.
I think the tug of war over the sequels robbed it of continuity so it didn't really fit with how the rest of the saga went.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
I don't disagree. I think JJ and Kasden missed an opportunity. Let's take the same general framework, this is a very loose outline, needs tons of filler.
Ep VII, Luke has 2 star pupils, Rey and Ben. Rey showed off her exceptional ability in the force despite not knowing her family. Ben is Leia and Han's son, turned already to the dark side by Snoke. One day Snoke and a legion of first order troopers raid Luke's temple. Big epic Battle, Luke and Rey and the academy hold their own until Snoke orders the heel turn of Ben and Ben attacks Luke. Luke defends himself and he and Rey go on the defensive as the First Order over runs the temple. Luke leads Rey out to a passage, to his old X-Wing. He collapses the base on himself, Ren and Snoke in a last ditch effort to end the first order which ultimately fails. Other resistance vs. first order stuff happens of course with the non-force sensititives. Episode VII ends with Rey meeting up with Leia and Han and telling them of the fall of their son.
Ep VIII has Luke telling Rey to seek out a former Jedi master in exile, which leads in the end to Ahsoka. Ahsoka is not Yoda though, she is jaded by the Jedi order. She teaches Rey how to effectively battle and still be at piece but never preaches the risks of fear and attachment. Leading to a Mid movie battle between her and Kylo where Kylo slices off her left leg below the knee cap when she wasn't prepared. And her needing to be rescued by Han and Leia. Han attempts to sway his son to return to the Lightside and Ben agrees to join, them, on a resistance ship, he turns again and goes ape ****. Only for Rey with a repaired leg who's been talking to Leia about the importance of being in the moment and Leia stand and defend the ship from Ben. Ben kidnaps Rey and brings them to Snoke's ship. Snoke attempts to turn Rey but she resists. Han, Leia, Chewie and some others break onto the ship. Han goes about disabling the shields and some of the cannons on the ship with Chewie While Leia and Finn go to rescue Rey. In the Throne room lots of dramatic tension blah blah blah leads to Snoke being killed by Ben. A conflicted ben goes to leave the ship with his head down and meets his father, as he is about to enter the room with his father who's reaching out to hug him a grunt gives him a salute and he realizes he can fulfill Darth Vader's plan now, and he executes his father. Embracing the darkside, becoming what Palpatine wanted Vader to be. Chase scene to finale.
Ep IX is all about the finale. Big battle fought against the first order. It starts with Leia sacrificing herself to save Rey, something that pisses off Ben to no end. Movie goes on. Rey at her low point is visited by Ahsoka as well as speaks with the Ghosts of Luke and Leia, inspirational **** happens of course. Here's where whomever the ancillary villain comes in. If you make it Hux, great, if you want it to be the Knights of Ren, fine. These hyper focused Villains are ravaging the last base of the Resistance. Leading to Ahsoka, Rey, and the main characters to mount a raid on the First Order blockade. Ben is distraught because his mother sacrificed her life to save someone he's always resented. He winds up meeting the force ghost of Anakin, who first appears in Darth Vader disguise before removing his mask and being Hayden Christensen. Talks about all the Darkside took from him. It gave him power he couldn't believe but made him into an island. Cut back to the heroes last stand, fighting off a legion of first order troopers, some light mechs, etc. As things get perilous Rey steps to the front and projects a force barrier, stopping the attacks. Giving her friends time to escape. She grows weaker and the shield grows weaker and she ducks behind cover. She centers herself, we hear a lightsaber ignite, and pan bakc and Rey is looking stunned as it isn't her. It's Ben turning yet again (something about this multiple flip flop is horrendous but man it seems funny) and Rey joins him while the rest of the resistance works their magic. WE get a final scene of Rey and Ben fighting to the Bridge where the ancillary villain is there, scoffs at Solo and calls him a traitor. Solo tells Rey to let him finish this and she looks at him cautiously. Film ends with Rey rescuing her escaping party and them all being picked up in the Millennium Fanservice, with Kylo Ren doing the thing he likes to do and destroying computers that causes the mothership to become disabled and it is destroyed. Skywalker saga comes to an end with Luke revealing to Rey that she like Anakin was a correction in the force, someone willed into existence to correct the horrors Snoke was unleashing in the Unknown Regions.
That was with almost no pre-thought so pardon the badness. But stream of consciousness writing i'm pretty sure i did a better layout than JJ's layout.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
I'm talking about movies mainly. Because if we're bringing show continuity than **** gets really buckwild with what people are complaining about.
Obi Wan defeated Grievous with a blaster. He protected himself with his lightsaber but defeated him with a rogue blaster.
Obi Wan didn't defeat Anakin, he turned Anakin into Darth Vader, who brutalized the Galaxy. Bested and defeat are not the same thing.
I still contest Palpatine lost that battle on purpose. I have plenty of evidence I have provided in the past given the broader canon. But beyond that, the implication in the films is that Yoda is the top dog dueler, and Palps bested him.
Yoda and DOoku played to a draw. I could argue it played to a defeat. Pushed Anakin closer to the dark side and Dooku escaped with no loss.
I think the reason we dont' see much victory with a lightsaber is clear, because aggression is a weapon used by the Dark Side. It is one that Luke tapped into for a split second and then stepped away because he could have beaten Vader and killed him, he could have even killed Palpatine, but he would have fallen to the Dark Side. Which is why again, Luke not showing up to the planet and dueling ben until Ben killed him is a superior display of Jedi skills. What better way to win than insure your causes safety, and do so in a way that robs Kylo of one of the last connections he has to the light.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
They're not retconning last Jedi, but I won't be mad if they eliminate literally everything from Rise of Skywalker. Movie is Rocky V bad.
They will. Disney knows they ****ed up. The whole point of their movies is to sell toys. And with their merchandise sales going down the last few years it's clear they made a mistake and they know this. It was a damaged brand and The Mandalorian is finally started to heal it.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
No, the point of the movies was to recoup the purchasing price of Lucas Film, and they did that without factoring in licensing.
Star Wars is an insanely huge brand and the movies drive the toys sales. That's where the business is at. And the movies failed at it. Changes are coming.
striker42
Well-known member
Here's something that's telling. Here are the 12 Star Wars projects currently ongoing or in production.
The Mandalorian
Rangers of the New Republic- Spinoff of the Mandalorian
Ahsoka- Spinoff of The Mandalorian featuring a Clone Wars and Rebels character
Book of Boba Fett- Spinoff of The Mandalorian featuring a character from ESB and ROTJ
Andor- About the guy from Rogue One
Obi-Wan Kenobi- Following Obi-Wan between ROTS and New Hope
Bad Batch- Following a Clone Wars commando team
Visions- Anime inspired show apparently with a wholly new story
Lando- About Lando
The Acolyte- Set in the High Republic period
A Droid Story- About a new droid with R2-D2 and C-3PO
Rogue Squadron- Following the squadron of Luke Skywalker and Wedge Antilles featured in ESB and ROTJ
We have 5 shows with major tie ins to the original trilogy (one with a major prequels tie in). We have 2 with Clone Wars tie ins. We have one with a Rogue One tie in. We have two with original characters set in the aftermath of ROTJ. And two that appear to be wholly new creations.
What is conspicuous by its absence? The sequels. No character from the sequels got their own show, none of the shows are set in the same time period as the sequels, none of them are fleshing out the sequels like Clone Wars did the prequels. I think the fact that there a dozen projects with the sequels being ignored speaks volumes.
The Mandalorian
Rangers of the New Republic- Spinoff of the Mandalorian
Ahsoka- Spinoff of The Mandalorian featuring a Clone Wars and Rebels character
Book of Boba Fett- Spinoff of The Mandalorian featuring a character from ESB and ROTJ
Andor- About the guy from Rogue One
Obi-Wan Kenobi- Following Obi-Wan between ROTS and New Hope
Bad Batch- Following a Clone Wars commando team
Visions- Anime inspired show apparently with a wholly new story
Lando- About Lando
The Acolyte- Set in the High Republic period
A Droid Story- About a new droid with R2-D2 and C-3PO
Rogue Squadron- Following the squadron of Luke Skywalker and Wedge Antilles featured in ESB and ROTJ
We have 5 shows with major tie ins to the original trilogy (one with a major prequels tie in). We have 2 with Clone Wars tie ins. We have one with a Rogue One tie in. We have two with original characters set in the aftermath of ROTJ. And two that appear to be wholly new creations.
What is conspicuous by its absence? The sequels. No character from the sequels got their own show, none of the shows are set in the same time period as the sequels, none of them are fleshing out the sequels like Clone Wars did the prequels. I think the fact that there a dozen projects with the sequels being ignored speaks volumes.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
They did what they set out to do. Sure it could have been better. That would have happened if they didn't **** up Rise of Skywalker.