Looking Ahead - The 2020 Offseason Thread

I'm not an expert on Mets prospects, or anything baseball, but this seems really light.

Mets are good. I know they just got to players that are making real money, so the surplus value may be low. But they got talented players.

Value is one thing. But you have a limited number of roster spots. Getting impact guys matters. I don't see either guy as being on a bad deal. Yes there is risk in 12-14 million for 34 and 35 yo player. But that is not a crazy risk.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
Full trade, per sources.

To Mets: Francisco Lindor and Carlos Carrasco.

To Indians: Amed Rosario, Andrés Giménez, Josh Wolf, Gimenez, Isaiah Greene.
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Indians love to acquire these major league ready pieces and in turn get underwhelming returns. They did the same with Clevinger. It's because they don't want to go through a rebuild, I get it, but hard to be happy as an Indians fan.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I'm not an expert on Mets prospects, or anything baseball, but this seems really light.

Mets are good. I know they just got to players that are making real money, so the surplus value may be low. But they got talented players.

Value is one thing. But you have a limited number of roster spots. Getting impact guys matters. I don't see either guy as being on a bad deal. Yes there is risk in 12-14 million for 34 and 35 yo player. But that is not a crazy risk.
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Quite simply it came down to they had the ability to add salary, and pretty much nobody else did. So the Indians had no choice. Who else were they going to trade Lindor too, realistically? Then you have the fact that the Indians overvalue major league ready pieces like Gimenez and Rosario, it really weighs the package down.

A trade like this just really shows the issue baseball still has with small market teams competing. The Indians literally can't afford to keep their best players and have to send them to a big market team.
 
Wow. Good for NY. That's a super strong rotation even if they don't get Bauer, though still with depth issues if they don't bring in anyone else.

I guess Rosario still has a good bit of upside. I was a little shocked to find out he just turned 25. But it seems like Freddie Galvis could have given them similar value for about 2-3 more million and maybe could have gotten a better prospect haul.

I don't know enough about the Mets system to know whether they overpaid or not, but Lindor and Carassco is a heckuva upgrade to their team.
 
NYCBrave said:
Indians love to acquire these major league ready pieces and in turn get underwhelming returns. They did the same with Clevinger. It's because they don't want to go through a rebuild, I get it, but hard to be happy as an Indians fan.
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I mean it's kind of worked for them up to this point. A lot of that is luck, but still, it's worked.
 
So Giminez was a 50 FV graded SS by Fangraphs before this season. His scouting profile suggests he's your typical good defensive SS with not much power and questions about his bat. My 2 bit scouting opinion is that this describes an Amed Rosario clone.


Wolf was their 2019 2nd round pick (no. 53 overall). Talented RHP with a good mid 90's fastball and good curve, but that's about as far as the scouting reports go. 40 FV grade on Fangraphs.

Greene was drafted this year with the Comp pick the got for Wheeler. So figure that's what Cleveland would have got had they just let him walk in FA with a quality offer.
 
Carp said:
I mean it's kind of worked for them up to this point. A lot of that is luck, but still, it's worked.
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Well we're still in the short term. They traded Bauer, Clevinger and now Lindor, and didn't really get back even one premium prospect in return. They better hope one of the major league talent they acquired (Franmil Reyes, Josh Naylor or Ahmed Rosario/Andres Gimenez) turns into something.
 
Not sure what all the hub-bub is about - I was told there was absolutely no reason to worry about the Mets when I started talking about them a while back. Can't imagine this moves the needle, they'll be battling it out with the Gnats for 4th place, right?
 
NYCBrave said:
Indians love to acquire these major league ready pieces and in turn get underwhelming returns. They did the same with Clevinger. It's because they don't want to go through a rebuild, I get it, but hard to be happy as an Indians fan.
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Of course if you're an Indians' fan, you could easily point to the fact that they've still...

1.) Got a really deep rotation that's under control through 2025 (Bieber through 2024) making no money
2.) Still have a legitimate MVP candidate at 3B making no money that they could turn into serious major league ready pieces if they decide to move him
3.) Are really deep up the middle with Jimenez, Rosario, Freeman, and Arias
4.) Have a legitimate corner bat that will be promoted this year in Nolan Jones

You could make the argument that if they decided to finish blowing things up and they turned Ramirez into Riley, Waters, one of our Catchers, and one of our arms they'd have set themselves up to be relevant in their division for another decade. Take Ramirez' money off their books and their current payroll would be around $27 million. With money to spend, playing time to hand out, and the DH available, Cleveland would be a really good landing spot for some of the less expensive solid bats that were cut loose this winter. They could give Pederson a chance to play everyday in RF, platoon Schwarber or Rosario and Duvall with Naylor, Reyes, and Bauers in LF, 1B, or at DH, and bring in a couple solid veteran RPs on the cheap to set up for Karinchak all on 2-3 year deals with Waters in CF and Riley at 3B - they'd still be in position to "surprise" in that division with that pitching staff and they'd have plenty of money available to try to lock up any of their young group if they look like they're going to be good.
 
clvclv said:
Not sure what all the hub-bub is about - I was told there was absolutely no reason to worry about the Mets when I started talking about them a while back. Can't imagine this moves the needle, they'll be battling it out with the Gnats for 4th place, right?
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I thought you debunked the Mets because AA is going to bring back Duvall.
 
clvclv said:
Not sure what all the hub-bub is about - I was told there was absolutely no reason to worry about the Mets when I started talking about them a while back. Can't imagine this moves the needle, they'll be battling it out with the Gnats for 4th place, right?
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no one said this.
 
Still not sure why this is so scary to us. CC is at that golden age of pitching where he should start to decline. Lindor is one year rental that won’t move the needle enough. Great on the Muts for making a splash with names but I am far from worried about them at this point.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Still not sure why this is so scary to us. CC is at that golden age of pitching where he should start to decline. Lindor is one year rental that won’t move the needle enough. Great on the Muts for making a splash with names but I am far from worried about them at this point.
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Many of our players they should improve starting with Albies and Acuña. We have the reigning MVP and our rotation is in better shape. I know AA don’t finish yet.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Still not sure why this is so scary to us. CC is at that golden age of pitching where he should start to decline. Lindor is one year rental that won’t move the needle enough. Great on the Muts for making a splash with names but I am far from worried about them at this point.
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Not sure they make this move without some backline that Lindor wont re-sign. I agree it's too early to hit the panic button, and AA has more moves to make.
 
Heyward said:
They'll probably re-sign Lindor.
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Heyward said:
Not sure they make this move without some backline that Lindor wont re-sign. I agree it's too early to hit the panic button, and AA has more moves to make.
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He’s going to cost in excess of $300m, even should he re-sign with them. Still, for the package they gave up, this was a no-brainier.
 
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