50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
So much for the Phillies not spending. Not a bad deal for them.
Looking Ahead - The 2020 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter clvclv
- Start date
So much for the Phillies not spending. Not a bad deal for them.
Ignorant statement as usual from him
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
They clearly think there's enough chance that they'd be stuck paying a disgruntled player $30+m annually for his decline years that they'd rather buy out now, for $50m plus a mix of MLB-ready, low-ceiling/high-floor pitchers and far-off, high-ceiling hitting prospects.
so much depends
upon
how you value
the red-flags
in a short
season
complicated by
injury
If that left-shoulder is chronic, or merely part of Arenado's bottoming-out in contact-quality, or hinders his otherworldly defense (which, while he's been a very good hitter, is a huge part of his overall value), or a sign of things to come as he crosses the 30-year-old threshold—these are all things that must give them pause. There's also the emergent factor of pandemic economics, which has seemingly further shifted the balance in trades towards teams willing to take on money.
If you're going to fault the Rockies for anything re Arenado, it probably should not be for making this deal, specifically, but for not making what likely would've been a better deal this time last year. (Or, it seems, for just being a generally-poorly-run franchise.)
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
To be fair, the little squiggly glyph at the end means it was a question, not a statement.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
they were regretting that contract almost from the day it was signed
tululush
New member
Hahaha gotcha. I was really scratching my head over who you were referring to. The only person I could think of was Aramis Ramirez and I was like umm it’s not 2005?
UofL_Braves
High School Draftee
Maybe now Atl can circle back to Cincy and snag Suarez from them since they aren't gonna be able to top the Cardinals? He would sure fit in nicely.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Yea, they spent ~$95m, between two losing seasons and the defraying outlay, for what looks like it'll be 4-5 prospects outside the Cardinals top-eight.
At this point it seems as if, from all standpoints—personnel-wise, the economics, and fan-confidence—they would've been better off just offering him a QO and taking the draft-pick. Being decisive in that fashion might've also had further positive ramifications for the franchise, eg: (a) perhaps that they wouldn't have felt compelled to re-sign Charlie Blackmon and "keep the band together"; (b) perhaps they would've decided against wasting Trevor Story's cheaper arb years on what would've been, at that point, clearly losing squads, and instead dealt him for a better return than they'll receive now (whether they trade him this offseason, with one-year at $17.5m left on his two-year pre-FA deal; or let him QO him after 2021 and angle for a draft-pick).
PawPawMaxwell
Called Up to the Major Leagues
Suarez would be a nice addition but Reds are pretty well fixed with pitching for now. One positive for us(depending on how you look at Riley) is that they have stacks of 3b prospects and Senzel IIRC is a 3b by trade.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
We are not giving up what it would take to get Saurez. He is not realistic at all.
UofL_Braves
High School Draftee
What would you think it would take? I wouldnt be opposed to offering Waters and Wright and a a couple 2nd tier prospects for Suarez. As mentioned above doubt they have interest in Riley which works cuz we could move him to LF.
PawPawMaxwell
Called Up to the Major Leagues
Thats the point. We have nothing really of value to the Reds as trade chips.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
We now have enough time with AA to know he is risk adverse. He is not trading his next “Thor” And he isn’t signing long term high AAV contracts. So we are not trading for a big bat and we are trying to wait Ozuna out to get him on a 2 year deal. We will see how it works out.
I am not being rude to any trade proposal. Just saying we know AA now and he isn’t going to do these type of trades. He builds around the fringes.
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PawPawMaxwell
Called Up to the Major Leagues
There are still a few viable (somewhat) FA options out there. Not advocating any of the following but just saying they could be considered for a role to open the season. Maikel Franco, Travis Shaw, Jake Lamb, Marwin Gonzalez all are potentially an improvement over Camargo. Marisnick, Pillar, Puig, Mazara. First 4 would mean Riley in LF and last 4 would leave him at 3rd. Obviously. Most if not all would be cheaper than Duvall and some should allow AA to release Camargo early in ST.
Not sure that can ever be measured correctly, but if Arenado would've waived his no-trade to come here - and wouldn't have required that extra year to be tacked on at the end of his deal - I'd probably have rolled the dice on him. The Rockies return was probably the equivalent of Bryse Wilson, Freddy Tarnok, and Michael Harris.
Really interesting take that Vince Gennaro had on the deal earlier this afternoon on XM - if the $50 million is spread out as $10 million each of the first five years, that means the Cards are paying him $25 million per. ZiPS projects he'll produce 7.4 WAR over those first two years he'll be a Cardinal. Even if the rate was $7 million/WAR, Arenado will earn the $50 million St. Louis will pay him over those two years. If he surpasses those projections and chooses to opt out after the second year, the Cardinals will have gotten one of the best 3Bs in the game for his last couple of prime years for below market-value - if he opts out, they don't give two *hits if someone wants to pay for the last few years of him. That would actually be ideal for them since you have to figure one of Gorman or Walker will be ready at that point.
You could argue the situation would have been the same for the Braves - shift Riley to LF this year to get a look at his adjustments over a full season - if Arenado opted out after 2021, you'd have the option of moving Riley back to 3B, putting Waters in LF, and spending $25 million on a DH.
tululush
New member
Some random person posted this on Twitter so it’s 99% false, but on the 1% chance it’s real, what does everyone think?
“I have no idea if it’s reputable and I’m not going to provide a name, but a #Braves friend of mine said Indians are asking for Langeliers, Waters, Riley, and De La Cruz for Ramirez.”
“I have no idea if it’s reputable and I’m not going to provide a name, but a #Braves friend of mine said Indians are asking for Langeliers, Waters, Riley, and De La Cruz for Ramirez.”
MadduxFanII
Swallowed by Mark Bowman
If that's all the Indians wanted the deal would be done by now.
PawPawMaxwell
Called Up to the Major Leagues
Looks to me like your friend may have used the MLB Trade Values site. Not accusing but the totals are very close.
tululush
New member
Oh this person isn’t my friend. Someone I follow liked this post and that’s how it ended up in my feed. But I fully realize 99% of the time these people post something it’s made up and doesn’t happen. Just thought I’d pass it along to pass the time until something/nothing happens.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
With AA being a tightwad for prospects, who knows if it would. I'd do that deal though.