The thing about cancel culture is that people don’t really stay cancelled for the most part. Even Mel Gibson is out there making movies.
Is Free Speech Under Attack in this Country?
- Thread starter sturg33
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The thing about cancel culture is that people don’t really stay cancelled for the most part. Even Mel Gibson is out there making movies.
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Polite society has some rights too. To draw some lines as it sees fit. If someone supports insurrection or promotes the disenfranchisement of entire states based upon the Big Lie, the rest of us should have the option of disassociating ourselves from that person. Call it cancel culture if you wish.
With respect to behavior of businesses, it is worth keeping in mind Michael Jordan's dictum "Republicans buy sneakers too." Businesses have the right to protect their commercial viability, as long as such action comports with the law.
Finally, social mores evolve. What might have been within the lines drawn by polite society a hundred years ago or even five years ago might not be within those lines today. The times they are always a-changin. Not everyone will be happy with the change.
Oh one more last last thing. The details matter. There is indeed real value in having a diversity of views and being able to express those without social sanction. But as I said polite society also has some rights to draw lines and enforce mores. Reasonable people can disagree on how these conflicts get resolved. Which is why I say the details matter. So when I see a generalized reference to "cancel culture" I'm always a bit skeptical if no details or context is provided.
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striker42
Well-known member
It's not just "polite society" though. If it were you'd see liberal actors getting cancelled when they go on tone deaf tirades. Lord knows we saw enough of them during Trump's tenure.
The problem is that there's a movement on the left to band together and pressure companies with power to exercise that power to punish people for statements the left sees as heretical. You don't have the same on the right and if you did I'd be condemning it. I loathe the idea of trying to get entities with power to use that power to silence people. I find it incompatible with a free and open society. Because let's face it, you have lots of companies these days that wield more power than the US Government did in 1800.
I think Carano's comparison to Nazi Germany wasn't great. I think the better comparison would have been to the French Revolution. You said something mildly uncouth? You're an enemy of the Revolution and to the guillotine with you! That's pretty close to how cancel culture works. You said something I don't like? You must be fired from everything and shunned by society!
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Yeah there's never been anyone related to a Trump Rally who's worn or flown Confederate Flags or Nazi insignia. Oh wait.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Cancel culture isn't fake. But if you don't think this firing is justified you're crazy. Disney, Lucasfilm, etc. gave her so much rope to hang herself with, she just kept taking more and more.
If my boss told me to stop posting **** talking on facebook and I didn't stop and it violated the agreement I signed with said employer and got fired, ti wouldn't be cancel culture. This was like strike 10 for her.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
As I said details matter. Was it just one ill-advised comparison to the Nazis that got her "cancelled," or was there more?
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Holy **** take Batman. Comparing literal genocide to people not liking you for being a QAnon conspiracy Peddler is hardly "not great" it's moronic. It's not comparable to the French Revolution either.
You do realize that not even 70 years ago, because of Government intervention, Hollywood was banning people for accusations of sympathy to communism. Republicans are children.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
It is a real problem that deserves serious discussion. How to draw the lines. Some may argue no lines should be drawn. I don't think so.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
terms like socialist, marxist, communist are routinely used to tar people...i guess that doesnt count as part of cancel culture
sturg33
I
Those are celebrated members of today's society.
I never quite understood why nazis are are considered worse than communists. The commies have done even worse damage to people around the world
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have already closed the voting on dumbest poster of the year as sturg has already wrapped it up with a record breaking show of stupidity, what an amazing twit.
striker42
Well-known member
Maybe I'm less outraged by this because I went to law school. One of the big things they teach you there is how to divorce and argument from underlying facts that are irrelevant to the argument especially when those facts are inflammatory. It's not an easy thing to do.
The argument she made was actually not bad when you take a look at it clinically. Germans didn't wake up one day and say "Hey, let's kill all the Jews". It took years of scapegoating and denigration to get to that point. In our politics we've seen years of politicians casting the other side as evil and something less than human. It has led to people legitimately hating others simply for their views. Just as denigration and dehumanizing Jews led to bad results, so denigrating and dehumanizing people who disagree with you politically will lead to bad results.
The difference is scale. The idea that people being hateful to Gina Carano because of her political views is on par with Nazi Germany is, of course, ridiculous. The idea that being trained to hate another group because they are different will lead to bad results is not ridiculous at all. We just saw a group of idiots take over the Capitol because they believed a group of officials that disagreed with them to be evil and deserving of punishment. This is a problem.
The idea that what she said was "abhorrent" or "anti-Semitic" (I've seen both thrown around) is just silly and comes from people who can't get over that she mentioned Jews in Nazi Germany and herself in the same breath regardless of what the comparison actually was.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I suspect that this particular comment in isolation would not have resulted in her losing her gig...it is actually a fairly nuanced take on what the Nazis (and the Germans who went along without thinking too much about it) did to the Jews
I think her losing her gig has to do more with her entire body of work as a "social commentator"...when your employer tells you you are skating on thin ice maybe you should listen
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striker42
Well-known member
It's not that crazy. Stalin killed 3 million Russians (at least). Mao's policies in China caused famines that wiped out over 70 million people. Pol Pot killed two million Cambodians. China is currently engaging in persecuting an ethnic minority. So Communist regimes certainly have an argument as being worse. I'd side with the Nazis being worse just because of their intensity. They did their damage in a much shorter time. But by sheer numbers, I think Communists are winning.