The Biden Presidency

yes, i've read your bat**** for years about your cult of misinformation and lies

i'm well aware of the fantasy world you have created

nothing you just stated has anything to do with what i posted in reply to your most recent silly bull**** you are trying to make the narrative
 
goldfly said:
yes, i've read your bat**** for years about your cult of misinformation and lies

i'm well aware of the fantasy world you have created

nothing you just stated has anything to do with what i posted in reply to your most recent silly bull**** you are trying to make the narrative
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Trump left us at unseen peace levels for decades.

Obama left the Middle East in shambles.

Let’s see if you can figure out why that’s relevant. Think hard.
 
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do you want me to copy and paste what you quoted and put it here? or can you scroll up and read it again?
 
thethe said:
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With each passing day it will become more and more clear how great trumps four years in office were.
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Yeah it was great watching Obama walk back control of Iraq and Afghanistan from extremists for Trump to signing an agreement with the Taliban to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.

Trump's middle eastern policy was do what Turkey and Russia want. It wasn't a secret.
 
thethe said:
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No refunds.

Just wait till you really find out how the election was stolen from both trump and Bernie.

Ubiparty doesn’t want the status quo to change.
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Trump really would not have changed things. For as much as he liked to claim he was not getting involved in the Middle East, we were just as present there as we have been for the last 30 years. Sure, we shifted some troops around, but we didn’t cease our operations over there. The issue isn’t that Biden is doing something Trump wouldn’t, it’s that for yet another election we had no alternative to the forever war.
 
mqt said:
Trump really would not have changed things. For as much as he liked to claim he was not getting involved in the Middle East, we were just as present there as we have been for the last 30 years. Sure, we shifted some troops around, but we didn’t cease our operations over there. The issue isn’t that Biden is doing something Trump wouldn’t, it’s that for yet another election we had no alternative to the forever war.
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Trump was clearly headed in a direction of non intervention and was only thwarted by the generals when he wanted to withdraw. His presidency is an example that there is an unelected deep state that will never want to leave the Middle East.
 
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thethe said:
Trump was clearly headed in a direction of non intervention and was only thwarted by the generals when he wanted to withdraw. His presidency is an example that there is an unelected deep state that will never want to leave the Middle East.
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You’re basically just reiterating my point that electing Trump over Biden would not have affected anything here, albeit with a different cause. If the generals run everything and the President doesn’t matter, why bother arguing over foreign policy?

For what it’s worth, I largely agree with the idea that the military essentially runs the show regardless of who is in office. I don’t agree that Trump really gives half a damn whether or not we’re bombing people in the Middle East. I think Democrats in general are *closer* to the answer, in that the more progressive wing of the party wants the right thing more than the Republican Party. However, that wing is overshadowed by the establishment that answers to the defense contractors and military. We have lost the privilege of being hands-off with respect to aid and influence, but there’s no good reason not to stop the fighting.
 
mqt said:
You’re basically just reiterating my point that electing Trump over Biden would not have affected anything here, albeit with a different cause. If the generals run everything and the President doesn’t matter, why bother arguing over foreign policy?

For what it’s worth, I largely agree with the idea that the military essentially runs the show regardless of who is in office. I don’t agree that Trump really gives half a damn whether or not we’re bombing people in the Middle East. I think Democrats in general are *closer* to the answer, in that the more progressive wing of the party wants the right thing more than the Republican Party. However, that wing is overshadowed by the establishment that answers to the defense contractors and military. We have lost the privilege of being hands-off with respect to aid and influence, but there’s no good reason not to stop the fighting.
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I’m not sure why you would think that about trump. He has railed against military intervention for over two decades. He took out the physical area of the largest terrorist organization the world has seen. He crippled Iran which was finding terror across the region. He facilitated cooperation deals (better than peace deals) and began a cascading effect where we have seen unprecedented levels of cooperation between Israel and the Arab world.
 
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We as a country did plenty to screw up the Middle East. Much of that was by going along with redrawn maps after world wars, plenty more was a result of the Cold War chess board with the USSR. But we can't have it both ways. We can't bemoan the situation created during the Cold War and then complain about a President "going along" with Russia because he didn't play Cold War chess with what is now a third rate power. Especially after we so recently set fire to the whole region by encouraging Arab Spring and taking out dictators who were better than the alternative.
 
Jaw said:
We as a country did plenty to screw up the Middle East. Much of that was by going along with redrawn maps after world wars, plenty more was a result of the Cold War chess board with the USSR. But we can't have it both ways. We can't bemoan the situation created during the Cold War and then complain about a President "going along" with Russia because he didn't play Cold War chess with what is now a third rate power. Especially after we so recently set fire to the whole region by encouraging Arab Spring and taking out dictators who were better than the alternative.
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Middle East was screwed up by the Brits long before we got involved heavily involved.

But yes you can have it both ways. You can acknowledge mistakes of the past and move on. Putin has a vested interest in the middle east. It's been a goal of Russia to control or have a controlling stake in the middle east since 1950.

Turkey conversely, enjoys a healthy amount of influence on it's region.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with stepping back in the middle east. I said 4 years ago we should spend a **** ton on nuclear and renewables to make them available to everyone for cheap enough to wipe out the fossil fuel industry and make it second fiddle.

What trump did was half assed.
 
So many layers

Since he’s now called a democrat and traitor by the maga/Republican Party lol
 
Another gem from a principled republican... I'd bet a large sum of money that the lecturer is a big fan of French

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Mr. Green is forgetting to count Cabinet intersectionality points.

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