Rethinking law breaking

I don’t think a single person implied that police are free of guilt.

It’s stupid points like this that make it impossible to get anything accomplished.
 
57Brave said:
perhaps someone - anyone can tell me what Tamir Rice did ?
Click to expand...

He carried, pointed, and attempted to draw a realistic replica of a gun. Violated rules 1, 3, and 5 in the first post of the thread. His parents should have taught him those rules, as I was taught and have taught my kids.

Two officers, Loehmann and 46-year-old Frank Garmback, were responding to a police dispatch call regarding a male who had a gun.[3][4][5] A caller reported that a male was pointing "a pistol" at random people at the Cudell Recreation Center, a park in the City of Cleveland's Public Works Department.[6] At the beginning of the call and again in the middle, he says of the pistol "it's probably fake."[7] Toward the end of the two-minute call, the caller states that "he is probably a juvenile", but this information was not relayed to officers Loehmann and Garmback on the initial dispatch.[8][9][10]

The officers reported that, when they arrived at the scene, they both continuously yelled "show me your hands" through the open patrol car window. Loehmann further stated that instead of showing his hands, it appeared as if Rice was trying to draw: "I knew it was a gun and I knew it was coming out."[11][12][13] The officer shot twice, hitting Rice once in the torso.[4][14] According to Judge Ronald B. Adrine, "...On the video the zone car containing Patrol Officers Loehmann and Garmback is still in the process of stopping when Rice is shot."[13] Rice died the following day.[15]

Rice's gun was found to be an airsoft replica; it lacked the orange-tipped barrel that would have indicated it was a toy gun.[16][17] A surveillance video of the incident was released by the police four days after the shooting, on 26 November.[18] On 3 June 2015, the Cuyahoga County Sheriff's Office declared that their investigation had been completed and that they had turned their findings over to the county prosecutor. Several months later the prosecution presented evidence to a grand jury, which declined to indict, primarily on the basis that Rice was drawing what appears to be an actual firearm from his waist as the police arrived.[12][19][20]
...
A review by retired FBI agent Kimberly Crawford found that Rice's death was justified and Loehmann's "response was a reasonable one".[23] The incident received both national and international coverage. It occurred on the heels of several other high-profile shootings of African-American males by police officers.
 
oh


how do we then protect ourselves from the "protectors" ?
or
rather POC protect themselves

cajun started a 130 plus page thread on over reach by police.
might want to take some time from adding to your exaggerated post count to read and come back to tell us what you read

Take sturg with you
 
It’s a tragedy what happened to rice but of course it all comes down to parenting. It always does.
 
Jaw said:
He carried, pointed, and attempted to draw a realistic replica of a gun. Violated rules 1, 3, and 5 in the first post of the thread. His parents should have taught him those rules, as I was taught and have taught my kids.

Two officers, Loehmann and 46-year-old Frank Garmback, were responding to a police dispatch call regarding a male who had a gun.[3][4][5] A caller reported that a male was pointing "a pistol" at random people at the Cudell Recreation Center, a park in the City of Cleveland's Public Works Department.[6] At the beginning of the call and again in the middle, he says of the pistol "it's probably fake."[7] Toward the end of the two-minute call, the caller states that "he is probably a juvenile", but this information was not relayed to officers Loehmann and Garmback on the initial dispatch.[8][9][10]

The officers reported that, when they arrived at the scene, they both continuously yelled "show me your hands" through the open patrol car window. Loehmann further stated that instead of showing his hands, it appeared as if Rice was trying to draw: "I knew it was a gun and I knew it was coming out."[11][12][13] The officer shot twice, hitting Rice once in the torso.[4][14] According to Judge Ronald B. Adrine, "...On the video the zone car containing Patrol Officers Loehmann and Garmback is still in the process of stopping when Rice is shot."[13] Rice died the following day.[15]

Rice's gun was found to be an airsoft replica; it lacked the orange-tipped barrel that would have indicated it was a toy gun.[16][17] A surveillance video of the incident was released by the police four days after the shooting, on 26 November.[18] On 3 June 2015, the Cuyahoga County Sheriff's Office declared that their investigation had been completed and that they had turned their findings over to the county prosecutor. Several months later the prosecution presented evidence to a grand jury, which declined to indict, primarily on the basis that Rice was drawing what appears to be an actual firearm from his waist as the police arrived.[12][19][20]
...
A review by retired FBI agent Kimberly Crawford found that Rice's death was justified and Loehmann's "response was a reasonable one".[23] The incident received both national and international coverage. It occurred on the heels of several other high-profile shootings of African-American males by police officers.
Click to expand...

he was 13 and had a toy gun !!!!
fer chrise sakes
 
57Brave said:
oh


how do we then protect ourselves from the "protectors" ?
or
rather POC protect themselves

cajun started a 130 plus page thread on over reach by police.
might want to take some time from adding to your exaggerated post count to read and come back to tell us what you read

Take sturg with you
Click to expand...

Well you first realize that by following simple rules you have effectively a 0% chance of being killed by a cop.

I know basic things like this are difficult for you to understand but try someday.
 
Yes it is.

When the nuclear family is strong. Government loses power. They can’t have that.

Also need more shareholder value by pushing two income homes.
 
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sturg33 said:
Education and celebrating single parenthood has done the most damage to people in this country

It is intentional
Click to expand...

please tell us all your interactions with teachers and children

or are you just going to "lecture" people on topics you have no knowledge beside slanted politically based blog posts
 
57Brave said:
he was 13 and had a toy gun !!!!
fer chrise sakes
Click to expand...

A toy gun that was manufactured to look like a real gun. And he waved it around pointing it at people. And he reached for it when the cops showed up to make sure everyone was safe and there wasn't about to be a mass shooting in a park.

It's a tragedy. Either he or his parents are to blame though, not the cops who ran in to danger to protect kids in a park from someone waving a gun.
 
they shot a kid with a toy gun.

no amount of faux justification changes that fact

//////

I started a thread asking how we avoid these situation for not only the victims but the police officers that get caught in these situations.
and really, your response amounted to it is the victims fault and there are no alternatives / solutions.
 
Last edited:
Your mentality is the reason why minorities have had their situations get worse over the past few decades.

No self determination. No self accountability.

It’s a poisonous ideology that has poisoned America.
 
57Brave said:
please tell us all your interactions with teachers and children

or are you just going to "lecture" people on topics you have no knowledge beside slanted politically based blog posts
Click to expand...

My dad was a teacher for 40 years. In my current social circle there are 8 teachers (all working remote, btw). Two of them are quitting for good bc the system is so ****ed.

I can look at the data of our test score outputs since the creation of the dept of education.

I can look at the explosion in children born out of wedlock.

I can look at the data that shows outcomes for those children are substantially worse.

I can look at how society and tax incentives celebrates this happening

This isn't complicated.

But your ideology insists you take more power from the individual and give it to the state. The state makes things worse and demands more power to solve the issues. You - a very stupid man - nods along approvingly
 
Jaw said:
He carried, pointed, and attempted to draw a realistic replica of a gun. Violated rules 1, 3, and 5 in the first post of the thread. His parents should have taught him those rules, as I was taught and have taught my kids.

Two officers, Loehmann and 46-year-old Frank Garmback, were responding to a police dispatch call regarding a male who had a gun.[3][4][5] A caller reported that a male was pointing "a pistol" at random people at the Cudell Recreation Center, a park in the City of Cleveland's Public Works Department.[6] At the beginning of the call and again in the middle, he says of the pistol "it's probably fake."[7] Toward the end of the two-minute call, the caller states that "he is probably a juvenile", but this information was not relayed to officers Loehmann and Garmback on the initial dispatch.[8][9][10]

The officers reported that, when they arrived at the scene, they both continuously yelled "show me your hands" through the open patrol car window. Loehmann further stated that instead of showing his hands, it appeared as if Rice was trying to draw: "I knew it was a gun and I knew it was coming out."[11][12][13] The officer shot twice, hitting Rice once in the torso.[4][14] According to Judge Ronald B. Adrine, "...On the video the zone car containing Patrol Officers Loehmann and Garmback is still in the process of stopping when Rice is shot."[13] Rice died the following day.[15]

Rice's gun was found to be an airsoft replica; it lacked the orange-tipped barrel that would have indicated it was a toy gun.[16][17] A surveillance video of the incident was released by the police four days after the shooting, on 26 November.[18] On 3 June 2015, the Cuyahoga County Sheriff's Office declared that their investigation had been completed and that they had turned their findings over to the county prosecutor. Several months later the prosecution presented evidence to a grand jury, which declined to indict, primarily on the basis that Rice was drawing what appears to be an actual firearm from his waist as the police arrived.[12][19][20]
...
A review by retired FBI agent Kimberly Crawford found that Rice's death was justified and Loehmann's "response was a reasonable one".[23] The incident received both national and international coverage. It occurred on the heels of several other high-profile shootings of African-American males by police officers.
Click to expand...

Embarrassing. There is video of this, just watch it.
 
Jaw said:
He carried, pointed, and attempted to draw a realistic replica of a gun. Violated rules 1, 3, and 5 in the first post of the thread. His parents should have taught him those rules, as I was taught and have taught my kids.

Two officers, Loehmann and 46-year-old Frank Garmback, were responding to a police dispatch call regarding a male who had a gun.[3][4][5] A caller reported that a male was pointing "a pistol" at random people at the Cudell Recreation Center, a park in the City of Cleveland's Public Works Department.[6] At the beginning of the call and again in the middle, he says of the pistol "it's probably fake."[7] Toward the end of the two-minute call, the caller states that "he is probably a juvenile", but this information was not relayed to officers Loehmann and Garmback on the initial dispatch.[8][9][10]

The officers reported that, when they arrived at the scene, they both continuously yelled "show me your hands" through the open patrol car window. Loehmann further stated that instead of showing his hands, it appeared as if Rice was trying to draw: "I knew it was a gun and I knew it was coming out."[11][12][13] The officer shot twice, hitting Rice once in the torso.[4][14] According to Judge Ronald B. Adrine, "...On the video the zone car containing Patrol Officers Loehmann and Garmback is still in the process of stopping when Rice is shot."[13] Rice died the following day.[15]

Rice's gun was found to be an airsoft replica; it lacked the orange-tipped barrel that would have indicated it was a toy gun.[16][17] A surveillance video of the incident was released by the police four days after the shooting, on 26 November.[18] On 3 June 2015, the Cuyahoga County Sheriff's Office declared that their investigation had been completed and that they had turned their findings over to the county prosecutor. Several months later the prosecution presented evidence to a grand jury, which declined to indict, primarily on the basis that Rice was drawing what appears to be an actual firearm from his waist as the police arrived.[12][19][20]
...
A review by retired FBI agent Kimberly Crawford found that Rice's death was justified and Loehmann's "response was a reasonable one".[23] The incident received both national and international coverage. It occurred on the heels of several other high-profile shootings of African-American males by police officers.
Click to expand...

Embarrassing. There is video of this, just watch it.
 
sturg33 said:
My dad was a teacher for 40 years. In my current social circle there are 8 teachers (all working remote, btw). Two of them are quitting for good bc the system is so ****ed.

I can look at the data of our test score outputs since the creation of the dept of education.

I can look at the explosion in children born out of wedlock.

I can look at the data that shows outcomes for those children are substantially worse.

I can look at how society and tax incentives celebrates this happening

This isn't complicated.

But your ideology insists you take more power from the individual and give it to the state. The state makes things worse and demands more power to solve the issues. You - a very stupid man - nods along approvingly
Click to expand...

No one asked about your father or social circle. Or what blog posts you read.
Asked about you and your experiences.

From your answer we can surmise you haven't the foggiest what you are talking about

/////

In fairness
I can do that too.
Recently my sister retired from an inner city school system.
She talks about over crowding and under funding
 
57Brave said:
they shot a kid with a toy gun.

no amount of faux justification changes that fact

//////

I started a thread asking how we avoid these situation for not only the victims but the police officers that get caught in these situations.
and really, your response amounted to it is the victims fault and there are no alternatives / solutions.
Click to expand...

My response is that by following the few simple rules listed in the original post, there will be no justification for police shootings.
 
there will and has been crime forever.
How do we deal with it ?

The old way doesnt work.
No matter what ever justification you tag on

It isnt working and hasnt been working for a long time
 
57Brave said:
No one asked about your father or social circle. Or what blog posts you read.
Asked about you and your experiences.

From your answer we can surmise you haven't the foggiest what you are talking about

/////

In fairness
I can do that too.
Recently my sister retired from an inner city school system.
She talks about over crowding and under funding
Click to expand...

Oh I see. When you asked me my experience with teachers, you weren't interested at all about my experience with teachers
 
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